Lost

[ryberg]

We've watched over 50 episodes of Lost on one or another computer (not including some off of the DVD set of the 1st season). Worked great.

Steve

[Eileencc]

Originally Posted by Joana

Hehe- always glad to pass my ideas on!! I didn't get nominated as a rambler for nothing ya know!! Hope you are well btw.!!!!

Well- how about this: Jack and Sawyer are with the pilot. Hence with the helicopter...... there is a fight between them and Kemy- they manage to leave but without Sawyer who stays behind as a hero or dead.

Well that's not gonna happen because, that just unaccceptable to me!!! Sawyer will not die and that's final! (I heard that the producers recently confirmed that Sawyer does not die in the finale, so I suppose that means he does. )

[Joana]

Originally Posted by Eileencc

Well that's not gonna happen because, that just unaccceptable to me!!! Sawyer will not die and that's final! (I heard that the producers recently confirmed that Sawyer does not die in the finale, so I suppose that means he does. )

*picks up phone*
"Ah- Mr. Lindeloff!! Just to let you know that Eileencc stated that Sawyer dying is unacceptable. ----.....Yeah, I think you'd better change the script, indeed!!"

[ryberg]

I used to think they'd never kill off Sawyer for such a reason. In fact, the cast has joked about precisely that in at least one interview I've seen. But then when you consider both the chopped up time aspect of things on the show, and also people seeming to be around even after they're supposed to be dead, well, it wouldn't be the same as killing off a character in the regular sense. And so much of the human interest aspect ofthe show is about loss and grief and so on, too...

All that said, I said I thought some people would be lost to us, not necessarily that they'd all die. I think we're going to see a parallel situation develop: just as the survivors of 815 were lost to their families and friends while on the island, some of them are going to be lost to the 6 who end up returning, as a result of the island being moved. I know there's a grave marker for Jin, for example, and Sun goes there, but that could indicate that he's lost to her, even if he's alive out there somewhere.

Steve

[Eileencc]

Originally Posted by ryberg

I used to think they'd never kill off Sawyer for such a reason. In fact, the cast has joked about precisely that in at least one interview I've seen. But then when you consider both the chopped up time aspect of things on the show, and also people seeming to be around even after they're supposed to be dead, well, it wouldn't be the same as killing off a character in the regular sense. And so much of the human interest aspect ofthe show is about loss and grief and so on, too...

All that said, I said I thought some people would be lost to us, not necessarily that they'd all die. I think we're going to see a parallel situation develop: just as the survivors of 815 were lost to their families and friends while on the island, some of them are going to be lost to the 6 who end up returning, as a result of the island being moved. I know there's a grave marker for Jin, for example, and Sun goes there, but that could indicate that he's lost to her, even if he's alive out there somewhere.

Steve

I think you're right about the parallel stories Steve. It's a little like the Tail Section people, who weren't discovered until several island weeks after the crash. It looks to me as if the folks who get left/ stay behind are purposely hidden for the protection of their survivors. That's my hope anyway, and then in the last episode, there will be one hell of a reunion episode.

Originally Posted by Joana

*picks up phone*
"Ah- Mr. Lindeloff!! Just to let you know that Eileencc stated that Sawyer dying is unacceptable. ----.....Yeah, I think you'd better change the script, indeed!!"

Excellent Joana! Exactly what I had in mind! They don't wanna mess with me. I mean, haven't they seen my avatar?

[REDirish]

Originally Posted by ryberg

. . . .
Or did Richard and Locke never see each other (which would seem hard to believe)? I remember Richard gave Sawyer the file on Locke's father in that one hillside chat, under the theory that Locke wouldn't kill him but Sawyer would . . .Steve

Richard gave Locke the file, not Sawyer, knowing that Locke could never kill his father. And I cannot imagine that Locke, as a man, would not remember Richard as the guy who came to his foster home and was such an angry adult to him as a child.

[Eileencc]

Originally Posted by REDirish

Richard gave Locke the file, not Sawyer, knowing that Locke could never kill his father. And I cannot imagine that Locke, as a man, would not remember Richard as the guy who came to his foster home and was such an angry adult to him as a child.

OK, from my favorite Lost source, Lostpedia, which helps me keep details in place:

However, six days after departing from the Barracks, after Locke’s humiliation in front of the tribe, Richard approached him as sat on the hillside watching the camp and the two were formally introduced (Locke not remembering his childhood encounter with Alpert.) He then takes the conversation to a more serious level, denoting that Ben knew Locke wouldn’t kill his father and wanted him to fail in front of the group (showing the starting of their rivalry) and then discusses that they are all here for reasons more important than the fertility issues that Ben has been focusing on. He then tells Locke that he knows he won’t kill his father, presenting him with a file on Sawyer and tells him to read it after Locke asks why Sawyer would want to kill Cooper. Richard later followed Ben and the Others as they left the Ruins, and Locke, in order to set up camp elsewhere. ("The Brig")

Alpert gave the file on Sawyer to Locke, who uses it to get Sawyer to kill Locke's father.

[ryberg]

Originally Posted by REDirish

Richard gave Locke the file, not Sawyer, knowing that Locke could never kill his father. And I cannot imagine that Locke, as a man, would not remember Richard as the guy who came to his foster home and was such an angry adult to him as a child.

I agree on the second part, but isn't the first part the other way around?

Steve

[ryberg]

Originally Posted by Eileencc

OK, from my favorite Lost source, Lostpedia, which helps me keep details in place:

However, six days after departing from the Barracks, after Locke’s humiliation in front of the tribe, Richard approached him as sat on the hillside watching the camp and the two were formally introduced (Locke not remembering his childhood encounter with Alpert.) He then takes the conversation to a more serious level, denoting that Ben knew Locke wouldn’t kill his father and wanted him to fail in front of the group (showing the starting of their rivalry) and then discusses that they are all here for reasons more important than the fertility issues that Ben has been focusing on. He then tells Locke that he knows he won’t kill his father, presenting him with a file on Sawyer and tells him to read it after Locke asks why Sawyer would want to kill Cooper. Richard later followed Ben and the Others as they left the Ruins, and Locke, in order to set up camp elsewhere. ("The Brig")

Alpert gave the file on Sawyer to Locke, who uses it to get Sawyer to kill Locke's father.

Ahhhhhhh...

Then it's a problem, imo...

Steve

[REDirish]

Originally Posted by ryberg

. . .
The other thing is that your thoughts here would seem to fit rather nicely with one of the oldest but still unexplained bits of the show, namely why Christian's body was not in his coffin when Jack found it, way way back near the beginning of the first season. I mean, if on the island he's not really completely dead, a he might be in the outside world, well...Steve

We talked about the difference in time before, and that would fit this scenario perfectly, since we really don't know and only assume, FF or FB. We assume the island to be present, and we believe we are watching FF and FB, hence time travel. But what if that is not exactly the case? Or the constant. What if the island has been moved before? Does it shift time in different increments or degrees?

[ryberg]

Wow, now I'm really thrown by this Locke/Richard thing! I mean of course that's right that it was Locke who got that file from Richard. Why Anthony (wasn't that Locke's father's name?) seemed to have to die to restore some balance or whatever, I don't know, but Locke already knewhe was a despicable con man. He just didn't know he was Sawyer's despicable con man. So that was what it took to get Anthony killed.

So of course anyone can feel free to disagree, but I just can't buy it that Locke doesn't remember Richard, the guy whose looks never really change and who has very unusual and significant and memorable exchanges with him at at least 2 different points in his life (albeit far apart). This to me argues for some sort of memory wipe aspect (or the equivalent effct due to coming unstudk in time or something), which is interesting to me in that it takes me back to the very beginning of the show and the sense that something was fundamentally wrong with this picture: the improbability of so many people having survived the crash, and of many of them being hardly hurt at all, and of there being just the right sort of combination of skills present in them (doctor, hunter, tracker, fisherman, soldier...). The characters even bring this up -- Sayid notably says "we shouldn't have survived" and Hurley says something similar -- and in general, they seem to be semi-amnesiacs about many things, early on. There's a whole "staged" effect about it all, perhaps most highlighted by the very first scene that opens everything, of Jack on his back in the jungle, off away from everyone else.

Think about it: what are the clearest echoes of that scene? Desmond waking up on the floor of Penny's flat in FBYE and Locke waking up just like Jack did, away from everyone else, in the jungle. They even take pains to put third limbs in roughly the same positions and to have Desmond running by naked as the counterpart in Locke's version to the dog in Jack's. I don't think such things are accidental on this show. And don't forget that in all 3 cases, we're talking about characters wakng up like that after something they should not have survived: a plane crash, for Jack, and the explosion of the original hatch and being at ground zero for whatever that electromagnetic anomaly/release was.

In fact, Desmond even tells the padre or somebody that hehad an incident where he woke up flat on his back in the middle of the street, too, maybe after being struck by lightning or something, I don't recall exactly now.

I think there's still something fundamental about the initial premise of the whole story that we have yet to find out, something along those lines. And keeping in mind such mind-blower twists like the ones in Phillip K Dick stories, notably the ones made into films, like Blade Runner and Total Recall, I expect it will have to do with memory and identity. I imagine for example that we may find out that our heroes were somehow complicit in getting on the plane and getting to the island in the first place, or something along those lines. Maybe they volunteered to be sent back in time, knowing they'd lose their memories in the process or whatever, in order to try to save the island and the world. That sort of thing...

Steve

[ryberg]

Btw, we've also watched a couple of episodes on the iPhone, sharing a single pair of headphones. While not optimal, this arrangement also worked.

Also, I for one got a real kick out of the return of the numbers in that way and poor, tormented Hurley's reaction to that.

Not holding my breath for any such big reunion scene, though, Eileen...

Steve

[Dawn]

Who seen Sawyer on Ellen, made my day.

[Eileencc]

Originally Posted by Dawn

Who seen Sawyer on Ellen, made my day.

DAMN!! No way! He almost never makes talk show appearances...sorry I missed that!

[Eileencc]

Originally Posted by ryberg

Btw, we've also watched a couple of episodes on the iPhone, sharing a single pair of headphones. While not optimal, this arrangement also worked.

Also, I for one got a real kick out of the return of the numbers in that way and poor, tormented Hurley's reaction to that.

Not holding my breath for any such big reunion scene, though, Eileen...

Steve

I agree about the numbers, and I wouldn't hold your breath for that reunion show either...who knows how it will all end up. You're doing a great job with the analysis, Steve. Keep it coming!