Banco Chinchorro as a cruise ship destination?

Michael · 07-07-2005

Have you read this? http://www.motherjones.com/news/outf..._pressure.html

Page · 07-07-2005

Thanks for posting that, Mike. Beyond the future fate of a beautiful atoll, which is bad enough, what I find really shocking (and never before knew) is that local governments in Mexico are not benefiting from a lot of the tourism - not even a local tax on a local pier???

And of course the sewage from the ships (or the tourism-supporting facilities that will be built on or near said beautiful atoll) fills the water with bacteria that contributes to all kinds of unwanted growth, killing coral reefs and all their inhabitants.

Sheesh, if things weren't already bad enough ...

Michael · 07-08-2005

A local resident involved in the regional government explained to me the economics of having a cruise ship show up on your coast. I was shocked. I had no idea how bad these things are for the local economy. They are an ecological AND an economic disaster.

JEZ · 07-13-2005

Micheal as ever on the ball....

I lived in Roatan Honduras when the cruise ships started to arrive. Some people became very rich, everyone else got nothing but grief. The landscape was bulldozed and the reef area which was once selected as the most beautiful bay in the carribean was destroyed....
JEZ

MichelleP · 07-20-2005

That would be horrible. I hope the government of Mexico will keep some of this beautiful coast pristine. I would hope for no more large resorts south of Tulum, but I fear one day the coast will be developed all the way to the border. If the coral reefs all die then many of the tourists will go.

ltex · 07-20-2005

My uncle owned/operated a dive shop in St Croix in the late 80's early 90's. When the big boats came in to town, they looked for a dive op to set up their excursions through. They offered the shops $15 a head for a two tank, which they sold for over 50-55. The choice was turn over a lot of volume or get nothing from them.

In the end, currently, very few ships come to St Croix anymore, which is how the locals want it. The local economy never really benefitted he says for a few reasons:
1. People ate on board
2. They actaully bought little, or bought from shops on the "shopping tour" or on the preferred store list. These stores were not local.
3. Longtime visitiors started going elsewhere, they fear the big boat people would decend and tear up St Croix.

**Anna** · 07-21-2005

I'm a big believer in 'to each his own' and I'm not quick to judge anyone, but in my opinion a cruise is the most irresponsible way to vacation there is. It benefits nobody on a non-corporate level, not even the vacationer who is grossly taken advantage of. Just think about all those sheets that are washed every day and where that detergent goes... Cruise ship guests are not contributing much to local economy, for sure - also considering that (for example) a snorkel tour that normally takes 8 people can only take 6 cruise ship guests (due to average body size).

MWC · 07-21-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anna

... I'm not quick to judge anyone ...
(due to average body size).

Yes, I see!

Remind me to only meet you in the evening, and never at a beach bar!

Ginger · 07-22-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anna

It benefits nobody on a non-corporate level, not even the vacationer who is grossly taken advantage of.

Totally agree. We did a cruise a few years ago, mainly just to try it out because we felt we wanted to try everything, also because we got a really smoking deal on a cruise outta Tampa that would break up our two weeks in Walt Disney World. (Hey, may as well break up a corporate rip off with a corporate rip off, eh?)

Anyway, there were some things that were okay (food was VERY good) but on this subject, we felt completely fleeced when it came to buying alcoholic beverages on board, and excursions at port. For this reason we brought on our own bottle at first port and mixed our own drinks (however un-couth that is) and booked no shore excursions from the ship. An example of the ripoff? For a snorkel tour to Dzul Ha beach on Cozumel that included only snorkel equip. and transpo. and 3 hours of snorkeling/beach time, it was $45 US pp, including kids.

The four of us in a $8 cab to Dzul-Ha, rented some equip., had lunch and beers on the beach for about $30. In total about a $40 day that the ship wanted to charge us $180 for, WITHOUT the beer and nachos and guac!

Michael · 07-23-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichelleP

I would hope for no more large resorts south of Tulum.

The Caribbean coast of the Quintana Roo mainland is zoned in this way by the state government.

The very northern area including Cancun. Zoned for high density accommodation. High rise hotels are allowed. The middle area including Playa and extending as far south as Tulum and north up to the airport turn off (approx). Medium density, no high rise hotels allowed. The southern area from Tulum south low density, none of hotels that are the size of the larger hotels in Playa are allowed in this area.

There are special rules for the biosphere, but in a nutshell no big or even medium sized hotels are allowed south of Tulum.

The plan looks sensible to me. Something for everyone. Jobs for Mexicans and a selection of coastal destinations from the Eco Hotels in the south to the High Rise hotels in the north. Hopefully the hotel owners can successfully sink any cruise ship dock plans that may appear.

bigdave · 07-23-2005

i have been saving that set of dives for a special trip.....guess i better go see it before it gets destroyed/altered. must take many photos. many photos.

**Anna** · 07-24-2005

Yeah, I was wondering if that body size comment would get any reactions... Well, I'm not saying it like it's a bad thing or so, it's just a fact. Ask anyone in the tourist industry. It's actually pretty easy to see if there's a cruise ship in town, just from this fact. Just as it's easy to spot a group of Italians a mile away, with their Invicta backpacks and tiny shorts. But believe me, I don't really care if someone is overweight or a bad dresser or drinks too much or whatever. What I do advocate is that maybe you think twice about taking a vacation with such a destructive monstrosity as a cruise ship and consider the consequenses of that decision on a local and global level.

MWC · 07-24-2005

My reply was tongue-in-cheek; I chalked the comments up to a stressing week ...

The LG site has some gorgeous aerial photos of the Chincorro bank. It would be such a devastating loss to scar it with dredging, etc.

Cruising has never appealed to us, as both Greg and I have an innate aversion to large groups of people crammed in together. And we like going to places to learn about the places!
Cruises seem to be getting more popular than ever, and I just don't get it, especially with terroroism concerns. Even prior to 9/11, I would have felt funny putting so much of my health, safety and potential for fun into such a centralized package.
There's a book out about the boom in the cruising industry -- not a flattering one -- I don't remember the title, but I'll look it up and post it for people. A lot of what's reveled there could apply to the AI industry, as well.

Softy57 · 07-25-2005

I agree with everything you said,& hope you can post that book title. I have never had the desire to "cruise" since I observed how little time the passengers on the ships stopping in St. Kitts actually spent there. It is a small island,but rich in history & topography, which took me 4-6 visits of 7 days each to assimilate.Playa is similar. After 17 days there in 2 years we are looking forward to 10 more days and some new things and repeating some others with the kids,like Tulum. You can see a lot of St. Maarten in a day,Nevis too,but you NEED a whole day which you never get on a ship.I love the water,but have never been tempted because I love history and local culture/eats/hang-outs more!

This thread is an eye-opener tho--never knew they're so ecologically devastating to the sea and local areas

.Thanks Anna. That baby girl is sure a growin'. Hope we get to see her in Feb.

07-25-2005

A few years ago, Harper's stuck David Foster Wallace on a cruise ship and let him write about whatever. Keep in mind, he's a mildly agoraphobic writer originally from the Midwest . . . his essay resulting was titled "A Supposedly Fun Thing I'll Never Do Again," which pretty much sums it up. Reading that pretty much cured me of ever wanting to go on a cruise.

07-07-2005	#1 (permalink)
Michael añejo Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Silicon Valley, California Posts: 5,312	Banco Chinchorro as a cruise ship destination? Have you read this? http://www.motherjones.com/news/outf..._pressure.html

07-20-2005	#5 (permalink)
MichelleP sandflea Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 5	That would be horrible. I hope the government of Mexico will keep some of this beautiful coast pristine. I would hope for no more large resorts south of Tulum, but I fear one day the coast will be developed all the way to the border. If the coral reefs all die then many of the tourists will go. Last edited by MichelleP; 07-21-2005 at 03:24 PM..

07-25-2005	#14 (permalink)
Softy57 añejo Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Massachusetts,U.S.A. Posts: 1,729	Hey MWC I agree with everything you said,& hope you can post that book title. I have never had the desire to "cruise" since I observed how little time the passengers on the ships stopping in St. Kitts actually spent there. It is a small island,but rich in history & topography, which took me 4-6 visits of 7 days each to assimilate.Playa is similar. After 17 days there in 2 years we are looking forward to 10 more days and some new things and repeating some others with the kids,like Tulum. You can see a lot of St. Maarten in a day,Nevis too,but you NEED a whole day which you never get on a ship.I love the water,but have never been tempted because I love history and local culture/eats/hang-outs more! This thread is an eye-opener tho--never knew they're so ecologically devastating to the sea and local areas .Thanks Anna. That baby girl is sure a growin'. Hope we get to see her in Feb.

07-07-2005	#2 (permalink)
Page life=playa Join Date: May 2003 Location: Playa del Carmen, Mexico and Tweed, Ontario Posts: 934	Thanks for posting that, Mike. Beyond the future fate of a beautiful atoll, which is bad enough, what I find really shocking (and never before knew) is that local governments in Mexico are not benefiting from a lot of the tourism - not even a local tax on a local pier??? And of course the sewage from the ships (or the tourism-supporting facilities that will be built on or near said beautiful atoll) fills the water with bacteria that contributes to all kinds of unwanted growth, killing coral reefs and all their inhabitants. Sheesh, if things weren't already bad enough ...

07-08-2005	#3 (permalink)
Michael añejo Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Silicon Valley, California Posts: 5,312	A local resident involved in the regional government explained to me the economics of having a cruise ship show up on your coast. I was shocked. I had no idea how bad these things are for the local economy. They are an ecological AND an economic disaster.

07-13-2005	#4 (permalink)
JEZ añejo Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: 10th Street Posts: 5,625	Micheal as ever on the ball.... I lived in Roatan Honduras when the cruise ships started to arrive. Some people became very rich, everyone else got nothing but grief. The landscape was bulldozed and the reef area which was once selected as the most beautiful bay in the carribean was destroyed.... JEZ

07-20-2005	#6 (permalink)
ltex beachaholic Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Under final approach to runway 18R at DFW, TX Posts: 428	My uncle owned/operated a dive shop in St Croix in the late 80's early 90's. When the big boats came in to town, they looked for a dive op to set up their excursions through. They offered the shops $15 a head for a two tank, which they sold for over 50-55. The choice was turn over a lot of volume or get nothing from them. In the end, currently, very few ships come to St Croix anymore, which is how the locals want it. The local economy never really benefitted he says for a few reasons: 1. People ate on board 2. They actaully bought little, or bought from shops on the "shopping tour" or on the preferred store list. These stores were not local. 3. Longtime visitiors started going elsewhere, they fear the big boat people would decend and tear up St Croix.

07-21-2005	#7 (permalink)
Anna top babe admin Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: after 10 wonderful years in Playa, now back in Sweden Posts: 3,716	I'm a big believer in 'to each his own' and I'm not quick to judge anyone, but in my opinion a cruise is the most irresponsible way to vacation there is. It benefits nobody on a non-corporate level, not even the vacationer who is grossly taken advantage of. Just think about all those sheets that are washed every day and where that detergent goes... Cruise ship guests are not contributing much to local economy, for sure - also considering that (for example) a snorkel tour that normally takes 8 people can only take 6 cruise ship guests (due to average body size).

07-23-2005	#11 (permalink)
bigdave añejo Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: short plane ride away from heaven on earth Posts: 2,693	i have been saving that set of dives for a special trip.....guess i better go see it before it gets destroyed/altered. must take many photos. many photos.

07-24-2005	#12 (permalink)
Anna top babe admin Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: after 10 wonderful years in Playa, now back in Sweden Posts: 3,716	Yeah, I was wondering if that body size comment would get any reactions... Well, I'm not saying it like it's a bad thing or so, it's just a fact. Ask anyone in the tourist industry. It's actually pretty easy to see if there's a cruise ship in town, just from this fact. Just as it's easy to spot a group of Italians a mile away, with their Invicta backpacks and tiny shorts. But believe me, I don't really care if someone is overweight or a bad dresser or drinks too much or whatever. What I do advocate is that maybe you think twice about taking a vacation with such a destructive monstrosity as a cruise ship and consider the consequenses of that decision on a local and global level.

07-24-2005	#13 (permalink)
MWC añejo Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Connecticut Posts: 6,500	My reply was tongue-in-cheek; I chalked the comments up to a stressing week ... The LG site has some gorgeous aerial photos of the Chincorro bank. It would be such a devastating loss to scar it with dredging, etc. Cruising has never appealed to us, as both Greg and I have an innate aversion to large groups of people crammed in together. And we like going to places to learn about the places! Cruises seem to be getting more popular than ever, and I just don't get it, especially with terroroism concerns. Even prior to 9/11, I would have felt funny putting so much of my health, safety and potential for fun into such a centralized package. There's a book out about the boom in the cruising industry -- not a flattering one -- I don't remember the title, but I'll look it up and post it for people. A lot of what's reveled there could apply to the AI industry, as well.

07-25-2005	#15 (permalink)
bic4d Guest Posts: n/a	A few years ago, Harper's stuck David Foster Wallace on a cruise ship and let him write about whatever. Keep in mind, he's a mildly agoraphobic writer originally from the Midwest . . . his essay resulting was titled "A Supposedly Fun Thing I'll Never Do Again," which pretty much sums it up. Reading that pretty much cured me of ever wanting to go on a cruise.

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