Tookie..

[user 6507]

Hmm...una chela fria anyone?

1. Tookie got what he deserved..shoulda let the surviving family push the plungers!
2. Every politician should be bitch slapped!
3. Every modern civilization on the planet evolved from expansionism and all the nasty things that go with it, there is not a single culture without blame.
4. It is OK buy smoke, use drugs illegally and promote the sterotpyical dopehead Gringo image in PDC, but it is NOT ok to work a few hours if you're a foreign college student.
5. Merry Christmas!!!
6. Which of the above statments is true?

[Donna]

Originally Posted by roni

Tookie is dead. It may be time to execute this thread also.

agreed...

[sctx]

Originally Posted by roni

Tookie is dead. It may be time to execute this thread also.

would you like to join me in an R.I.P. post Ron ????

[Donna]

Originally Posted by sctx

would you like to join me in an R.I.P. post Ron ????

How about a wrapping this one up ... without James having to say it.That would be something new around here.

[Daddy B]

Originally Posted by Seakony

Why do ex-pats and Europeans always want to discuss US policy? It's our business. You all claim that we poke our noses into other countries affairs....yes we do but we are not alone. We are supposed to be allies. I don't see any US citizen here tell you guys that you should have capital punishment or ban the abortion pill. We don't go bashing your leaders and lawmaking policies. You have a pretty good crime rate too. Maybe your press or authorities keep quiet about it...Bad for tourism. Americans are getting to the point that "since ya don't like us" attitude that there may be a really big stink if one of our allies needs military assistance. If ya can't say something nice about a country then just shut up.

Seakony - Why do ex-pats and Europeans always want to discuss US policy? It's our business.

Not really, my country is an accomplice in the "coalition of the willing", therefore I have as much right as you do to discuss it, especially when the unilateral policies of one country impact around the world.


Seakony - You all claim that we poke our noses into other countries affairs....yes we do but we are not alone. We are supposed to be allies.


So? Can't an ally criticize another when he sees something wrong? Am I not entitled to criticize the US for leading a bunch of countries into - as security agencies, even the CIA warned it would happen - creating more terrorists? The fact that I'm less safe today owes more to the US and the UK (amongst others) than it does to Al Qaeda.


Seakony - I don't see any US citizen here tell you guys that you should have capital punishment or ban the abortion pill.


Am I not entitled to be against the death penalty? The fact this thread was started by an European based on an event taking place in the US is almost irrelevant; what is at stake is the death penalty itself, be it in the US, China, Iran, North Korea, Egypt, etc.,...


Seakony - We don't go bashing your leaders and lawmaking policies.

What? Not even Chavez of Venezuela? Or Salvador Allende of Chile, the victim of the other 9/11, that of 1973?


Seakony - You have a pretty good crime rate too. Maybe your press or authorities keep quiet about it...Bad for tourism.



Seakony - Americans are getting to the point that "since ya don't like us" attitude that there may be a really big stink if one of our allies needs military assistance. If ya can't say something nice about a country then just shut up.

You're saying every single US citizen is unanimous in that? Impossible, as you must realise by reading posts from your fellow US citizens.
I can't speak for others, but I grew up with, amongst other countries', US films, cartoons, music, food, cars, etc.,...
I loved them and I still do. Later on, I worked with lots of US people and companies. In fact, I still do.
What I don't accept are certain policies, certain blinkered attitudes and accusations being thrown about based on prejudice rather than fact.

[Jo]

Originally Posted by ThrushJockey

I see what you are saying and can understand where this point of veiw comes from, and respect your right to have that opinion. I just don't agree with you. I think that a "human" deserves to be treated with human rights, but I believe that a "human" can forfit those rights by taking the life of other "humans" for no good reason. Conveicted Killers, rapists, and other violent criminals that destroy the life of another "human" forfit there right to be treated like a human. They did not afford their victims any "human" rights did they?

There are studies done on violent crimes in the U.S. Some of these studies show that 70% of the violent crime is comitted by 30% of the criminals. It is basic math to come to the conclution that that is caused be repeat offenders. It is also basic math to figure that if you remove or "dispose of" these violent people the crime rate will drop. I think the innocent members of a socitey need to be protected from these "animals". The store clerk that Tookie shot in the back would have been 52 this year. Maybe he would have made a great impact on the world, we will never know, he did not get the chance. (Maybe the cure for cancer or maybe the answers to a peacful solution to war in the middle east)

Oh- I just realized that my point came across a bit twisted.....in this case I was ONLY referring to the choice of words, not the action of execution or the laws or such.......
Like......putting "executed" instead of "dispose" in there and something other than "waste"- even crook, gangster, murderer- would have been okay for me!
In this case it wasn't the topic that made me cringe- it was just the choice of words and what they imply...little linguistic discourse so to speak.

On the rest of the topic- when it comes to "taking back" human rights because someone has done bad I do disagree, true.
I am thinking that by taking back the human rights from that person we lower ourselves in a way.....
Or, lets put it this way: the constitution of Germany starts with this sentence:
"Die Würde des Menschen ist unantastbar."

Means: The dignity of man is untouchable.

Yep- not touching it may get hard with some.......still, I like that sentence as it also ensures that by still adressing someone evil as human we remind ourselves of how humans can be. And by treating him according to our laws, not torturing him or such, we show that we have learned a bit more than the person in question and don't go for simple revenge.

[sctx]

Originally Posted by greek2me

How about a wrapping this one up ... without James having to say it.That would be something new around here.

OK, I'll pretend I have a little less hair and drink Corona

Ok, wrapping this one up, any further non-relevant posts will be deleted


(how's that Donna???)

[sideways]

Originally Posted by roni

Those Caribbean countries. How come they get to hog all that turquoise water and white sand?

It's just not fair!!!

[sctx]

Originally Posted by sideways

It's just not fair!!!

non-relevant post.... I'd delete it if I could

[sideways]

Originally Posted by sctx

non-relevant post.... I'd delete it if I could

:p :p :p

[Jo]

Originally Posted by Seakony

Why do ex-pats and Europeans always want to discuss US policy? It's our business. You all claim that we poke our noses into other countries affairs....yes we do but we are not alone. We are supposed to be allies. I don't see any US citizen here tell you guys that you should have capital punishment or ban the abortion pill. We don't go bashing your leaders and lawmaking policies. You have a pretty good crime rate too. Maybe your press or authorities keep quiet about it...Bad for tourism. Americans are getting to the point that "since ya don't like us" attitude that there may be a really big stink if one of our allies needs military assistance. If ya can't say something nice about a country then just shut up.

I personally don't see a discussion as attacking a country or a person. I see it as a way to exchange viewpoints, to learn the arguments of the other side and to try to understand them. Yep, a discussion may get heated- but I still think it is something very important, as is all conversation.
If someone would put up a thread like....."Why are Germans so obsessed with global warming??" I would simply go in there and argue my side- but not feel attacked or something.........
If someone bashed our president and it would be rightful I'd agree- if not I'd simply argue back and make my point. I wouldn't see it as offensive, just as a discourse of different opinions- like it happened many times across the pond before the Iraq war started.

As for the crimerate and the government probably lying about it to keep toursim going- I doubt that. There are so many critical eyes looking at those statistics that the last small attempt to make them look better (this was a local happening here in Hamburg where they were trying to make it seem like we had less drug addicts to show that their politics were great, while in truth the number hadn't changed....) got busted right away.
And if it WERE so and someone would bring up evidence and not just a theory that it might be so without proof or links or something I would be absolutely willing to discuss it.


As for "Why do the States always get bashed? Why no other countries? Stop it already!"
I guess the answer here is that the States are one of the biggest nations in the world, so they dominate many fields, thus influencing many nations- wether they want it or not. So it should be those nations right to adress certain subjects. And it should be each individuals right to ask why a policy is so and so- I would have also discussed the death penalty very willingly if the thread had started with "Why are Europeans so soft and don't have the death penalty?".
So it is just natural to discuss what the States are doing......and recently unfortunately there have been several issues popping up that were worth discussing in my opinion.
It would be just as natural to discuss any other country and what they are doing.
If Germany were that big everyone would be watching our every move.
Unfortunately everyone WAS watching our everymove and questioning us as well for a loooooong time- rightfully so, and when those discussions come up nowadays I also don't feel offended but just see it that there are still some who feel the need to adress the subject.
Or to put it differently: if you're playing the big games you have to be able to take critisizm........or people asking why you do things the way you do.

Good new discussion point would be what happened in the small rural town in China when farmers chose to demonstrate........But it would be half as interesting as we unfortunately don't have any Chinese citizens on this board to answer our questions on how they see things.

Also I think disagreeing on points doesn't make countries lesser allies.
Germany and the US have disagreed on the war in Iraq- but they agree on many other things and work together. Like when it comes to trade.
It's like in a marriage- there might be things in your partner that drive you nuts- but you still like him or her.



Also- at least in my case- whenever I question a policy of a country it never means I hate or dispise the country. I just wonder and want to find out- and sometimes decide to disagree on that point.

[JudyBluEyes]

Originally Posted by Joana

"Die Würde des Menschen ist unantastbar."

Means: The dignity of man is untouchable.

Yep- not touching it may get hard with some.......still, I like that sentence as it also ensures that by still adressing someone evil as human we remind ourselves of how humans can be. And by treating him according to our laws, not torturing him or such, we show that we have learned a bit more than the person in question and don't go for simple revenge.

[PlayadelSoul]

OK, but before we lock it up, let me just reiterate my stances on the myriad of different subjects covered.

Tookie.. Why the first name? Is it to try to personalize an animal? He's dead. Good.

Europeans: Have every right to comment on US policy. Until the EU is the superpower, however, they also have to live with US policy. Probably why the bitterness in some. Losing millions of dollars in chemical contracts with Saddam had to have hurt.

Iraq: How can you not smile when you see all of those people vote? BTW, who declared this war illegal? After so many ultimatums (UN, by the way), somebody had to follow through. It is like your kid. You tell him over and over not to do something or you will punish him. Until you take away the GameBoy or smack him on the ass, nothing will change.

Abortion: Not touching that one, but you can probably guess.

Christmas: Lovely holiday. Hope everyone has a good one.

Did I miss anything?

[TnJ]

...

[Andiline]

Originally Posted by Seakony

Why do ex-pats and Europeans always want to discuss US policy? It's our business. You all claim that we poke our noses into other countries affairs....yes we do but we are not alone. We are supposed to be allies. I don't see any US citizen here tell you guys that you should have capital punishment or ban the abortion pill. We don't go bashing your leaders and lawmaking policies. You have a pretty good crime rate too. Maybe your press or authorities keep quiet about it...Bad for tourism. Americans are getting to the point that "since ya don't like us" attitude that there may be a really big stink if one of our allies needs military assistance. If ya can't say something nice about a country then just shut up.

Rita, you don't seem to have the slightest clue how much US policy affects the lives of people not living in the US and not being US citizens. I can feel it every day and I am not happy with it as it could cost me my job in the very near future. So I guess we have the right to talk about it because even outside the US a lot of us have to live with it without having the slightest influence on it.

Andrea