Holland launches the immigrant quiz

[Thor Henning]

Holland launches the immigrant quiz. Is it a great idea? Should more countries have an immigrant quiz like this? What do you think?

You may read about the immigrant quiz here.

[Joana]

Interesting as: some states here in Germany have just done the same thing.

And there is a huge discussion about it in the others........
No movie though- just a questionnaire with questions such as "Do you think it is okay to beat your wife?", "Do you believe men and woman are equal?".
The test is mainly meant for Muslims as far as I gather it and does NOT have to do anything with the war on terror, but with the fact that the majority of foreigners living here and coming to live here are Muslims- thus we have the most problems with such immigrants (such as not enough integration etc. due to different backgrounds).

The questionnairs are being discussed here for two reasons:
a) because we also have non-muslim immigrants......what about them??
b) because the questions only indirectly relate to Germany....how about a test like in the States, with history questions, questions about rights etc.??
c) for sure the questions will leak in NO time- so anyone intelligent can learn the "right" answers.


I personally feel that these kind of tests are not okay the way they are done- they won't really help....in the end if someone wants to cheat he will.

Still- I would have nothing against a GOOD test....one with language being tested and history and such- because those are things one should know when wanting to become a citizen of a country imho.

Mind you- our test is being done if someonne wants to be a citizen- not for those who come to seek refuge.

[sctx]

wow, that kinda smells of forced assimilation........not exactly "progressive" is it

[Thor Henning]

Originally Posted by sctx

wow, that kinda smells of forced assimilation........not exactly "progressive" is it

More like: If you want to live in a country you have to know that countries laws and tradition. If you don't know that, or if you don't want to live after it, you may not be qualified to live in that country.

There are some plus and minus here. Is it right for a country to protect itself this way, or is it narrow-minded?

[TAPPY]

Is this to become a citizen or just to live in the country ?

[Thor Henning]

Originally Posted by TAPPY

Is this to become a citizen or just to live in the country ?

I think it's to live in the country (not shure).

[sctx]

Originally Posted by Thor Henning

There are some plus and minus here. Is it right for a country to protect itself this way, or is it narrow-minded?

being American, it's really hard for me to say.....I mean, think of the 12 hour movie you'd have to watch that attempts to even vaguely define the American culture.
I guess from the "educated immigrant" standpoint it does have some merit, assuming an immigrant has done no research into their choice of a new country.......I tend to think the immigrant does have an idea of what they are getting themselves into, unlike most tourists that visit foreign countries soley because it's a beautiful vacation spot.
Almost seems like the warnings/disclaimers on our retail products

[Joana]

Originally Posted by sctx

wow, that kinda smells of forced assimilation........not exactly "progressive" is it

I would call it "forced" integration, not assimilation.
Assimilation would mean forbid them to f.e. express their religion with wearing burkas (yes, there are few Muslim women who do that here...) or by covering their hair....
Assimilation would mean take away their tradition, forbid them to speak their language most of the time.....etc..

Integration on the other hand means (for me) that everyone who wants to live in a country permanently should at least know a bit of the language, of the culture etc. and accept it (NOT live by it but at least tolerate it and not get in a huff over it).

Here in Germany the "progressive" attitude has been the one since the first huge wave of immigrants from Turkey in the sixites and seventies.
As in: if they come to live here for sure they will learn the language and integrate....and accept the culture....

Outcome?? Many of the first generation (esp. women) still don't speak the language very well (if at all), the Turkish workers (not the academics and those who are more well off...) don't mingle much.
Even the second generation often doesn't speak the language too well, thus failing in school, thus ending up with no or bad jobs and being frustrated.

Plus: even in the second generation quite a number are still sticking to their culture- which also means arranged marriages, inferiority of the women, macho attitudes, thinking that German women are "easy to get" as they don't behave like Turkish women etc. etc. etc. yadda yadda.

So the progressive attitude of the last 30 years has gotten us nowhere, but has created a parallel-society as we call it over here.......

Other countries have had such tests for a long time- like the US (without a movie, true, but still) and I think it should be natural that if you live in a country you accept or at least tolerate its ways of living, its constitution and its culture.......otherwise why would you want to live there (except for the money?).

For a functioning society all have to agree upon certain basic standards....if that isn't happening it tears a society down.

[sctx]

Originally Posted by Joana

I would call it "forced" integration, not assimilation.
Assimilation would mean forbid them to f.e. express their religion with wearing burkas (yes, there are few Muslim women who do that here...) or by covering their hair....
Assimilation would mean take away their tradition, forbid them to speak their language most of the time.....etc..

I believe they spoke of banning the wearing of burqas.... sounds like assimilation to me........seems tainted with "this is the norm here, and normality is good"

[Thor Henning]

Originally Posted by sctx

I believe they spoke of banning the wearing of burqas....

Not in Germany and not in Norway. France did, I belive.

[sctx]

Originally Posted by Thor Henning

Not in Germany and not in Norway. France did, I belive.

the article mentioned that banning of burqas has been brought up by Hollands immigration minister Rita Verdonk........to me that says, you can't wear your burqas because it may upset the gay guys kissing in the park

[Joana]

Oh- misunderstanding here....in what I wrote I was only referring to my country (as we have the "quiz" starting here as well now....).

Yeah- I don't like the idea of forbidding burkas either. To each his own.
As long as they are not teachers, doctors etc. as those are jobs that should be "neutral".

[Thor Henning]

I don't like forbidding burkas either. I have students wearing burka and it doesn’t bother me at all. But men beating their children and wife, and daughters being beaten up because they have fallen in love with a boy their father don't like... that is bothering me.

[TeeZet]

Nothing much to add, really. Joana worded it better than I could have, anyway.
I think you can say, though, that the pedulum has gone from the one opposite end to the other... which isn't necessarily a good thing.
The subject is pretty controversial here...