openings and closings in Playa

[ryberg]

Well I kept at it just now over lunch with the staff and came back with a little more. I realized that we could probe the boundaries of the gringo category (or in this particular case, gringa category ), by comparing their responses re my daughter Alex and James & Anna's daughter Elsa. Both are Mexican by virtue of being born here and have American fathers, and both are definitely gueras in their minds. The only difference in their pedigrees, as it were, is that of course Alex has a Mexican mother and Elsa has a Swedish mother.

But it turns out that that doesn't appear to be as important as the girls' respective coloring: the agree it's certainly easier and possibly acceptable to say gringa about Alex, despite the fact that she's the one with the Mexican mother, apparently because that fact doesn't have as much power to block the application of the term gringa to her as Elsa's strongly Scandinavian appearance has in blocking the use of the same term in reference to her.

Indeed based on their responses, the primary thing would be the coloring: they said that if they just saw her somewhere and knew nothing about her, they would say Europea or might guess and say Sueca or even Alemana or whatever, but would not say gringa, because they would not associate such an appearance with being American.

So it's a combination of appearance and association with a given country, region or ethnic group, not just what one's country is.

And for what it's worth, James, they agree that you are still a gringo, despite having Mexican citizenship now (which is probably not very surprising)...

Originally Posted by denisea

We did have a discussion about the etymology of the word gringo a few years ago... here.

Thanks for that link! I remember at least one of those. Personally I'm now much more interested in the whole categories angle and who the term (wherever it came from) is used to refer to, after this discussion. Has that been taken up on the forum before?

Steve

[denisea]

Originally Posted by ryberg

Thanks for that link! I remember at least one of those. Personally I'm now much more interested in the whole categories angle and who the term (wherever it came from) is used to refer to, after this discussion. Has that been taken up on the forum before?

No, I don't think it's been addressed before... at least not in the manner in which you speak. I also think it would be interesting to learn more about the categories angle and who fits into the various categories.

[ryberg]

Originally Posted by denisea

No, I don't think it's been addressed before... at least not in the manner in which you speak. I also think it would be interesting to learn more about the categories angle and who fits into the various categories.

Delmy tried to tell me that there is a tendency for people from countries south of Mexico not to refer to Mexicans as Latinos (even while referring to people in other countries of the region that way). She said a friend of ours from Peru who was living in Japan the same time we were told her she was not Latina but was (duh!) Mexicana! However the friend said that other people we knew, from El Salvador or... Chile? I think it was, were Latinos.

Indeed you get something like this in Japan, as well: the word that literally means foreigner -- person from an outside country -- (gaikokujin or in its gringo-type form, gaijin) is actually only used in reference to foreigners of basically European ethnic descent, so it's not typically used for African-Americans or Chinese people, for example, despite the obvious fact that they also qualify as people from an outside country.

Categories are great. Language is great. It's almost always much more complicated that you realize until you start looking into it deeply and carefully.

Steve

[Rissask]

I agree, I mean not just from my view but from what seems to be the observed usage of the word here. I'm just not sure about Canadians. I think Americans are the best example but that a fair number of Mexicans would use the term to apply to Canadians, as well, either just out of carelessness or because they don't see a difference significant enough to prohibit the application of the term to Canadians.

We got talking to a guy from Merida on a colectivo our last trip to Playa about the word 'gringo' ...he assured us that it was JUST for people from the US and not used for Canadians; we asked. But I agree many Mexicans would, out of carelessness, or just assuming we are Americans! *shrug* That would be only natural.
He was quite clear that it was somewhat derogatory though!
There is some good info on Wiki about those other terms:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latinos

[Davev]

Is there really that much dif b/w Americans and Canadians..? My fathers family goes back 400 years in Quebec, am I half-gringo...?

[JEZ]

Originally Posted by Cosmo

Whew! Good to know, so whats Spanish for Limey? Go England!

My Mexican mates usually say Amigo guey (pronouced way) to me!

[PDFly & Flash]

Originally Posted by JEZ

My Mexican mates usually say Amigo guey (pronouced way) to me!

But what do they say behind your back? That would be more of the equivalent!

[synestere]

Back on topic
The George and Dragon opened a few days ago on 5th y 22nd ish (Little Italy ) . All the world cup football will be on and they have a massive screen .............There will be a big crowd for the English game tomorrow morning

[JEZ]

Originally Posted by PDFly & Flash

But what do they say behind your back? That would be more of the equivalent!

Dam.... You dont think they might be saying the G word?

[Michele]

Originally Posted by synestere

Back on topic
The George and Dragon opened a few days ago on 5th y 22nd ish (Little Italy ) . All the world cup football will be on and they have a massive screen .............There will be a big crowd for the English game tomorrow morning

Can´t make it tomorrow...getting ready for Jill's party. I'm really looking forward to checking it out.

Off Topic....Craig called tonite. Drunk dialing!!! He is going to be at the UK Darts Tournament wearing a PDC shirt. If we can find it on satelite TV, we should be able to spot him.

[synestere]

You can rely on Craig .... a true sportsman

[Ginger]

Very interesting info, Steve! Loved it.

I'd also note, it doesn't make much sense to be looking for the definition of a Mexican word in an English dictionary...not sure that the true meaning or effect would really be placed.

BTW..Canadians are easily distinguishible, anyway it doesn't take long for anyone to notice WE are Canadian, eh?

[Heather]

Originally Posted by Ginger

BTW..Canadians are easily distinguishible, anyway it doesn't take long for anyone to notice WE are Canadian, eh?

I just asked Sonia how she can tell a Canadian from an American. She said she can't, so you might get called a gringa by a Mexican. Make sure to point out the Canadian flag on your backpack to get that nasty misunderstanding cleared up.:p

[Ginger]

Originally Posted by Heather

I just asked Sonia how she can tell a Canadian from an American. She said she can't, so you might get called a gringa by a Mexican. Make sure to point out the Canadian flag on your backpack to get that nasty misunderstanding cleared up.:p

I said that tongue-in-cheek anyway, emphasis was on the "eh?"...guess I should have included a smiley.

But you know us Canadians well, Heather. Never a flag appears on our clothing, in our homes, etc. until we are on vacation internationally...suddenly out comes the Canada shirts, hats, and backpacks!!

[Anna]

I've traveled extensively around Latin America and it's very common indeed for fellow backpackers that are Americans (i.e. US citizens - Canadians and Mexicans are also Americans, really) to stitch a Canadian flag on their backpack to avoid animosity and potential danger, especially in coutries like Colombia.