Monuments for Joe McCarthy

[Tony&Cheri]

"I know he got a bad rap because there are no monuments to Joe McCarthy. Liberals had to destroy McCarthy because he exposed the entire liberal establishment as having sheltered Soviet spies." -conservative Republican commentator Ann Coulter defending the memory of the former Junior Senator from Wisconson.

Just rented and watched "Good Night and Good Luck". Makes us proud to be liberals.

[StewartG]

Originally Posted by Tony&Cheri

"I know he got a bad rap because there are no monuments to Joe McCarthy. Liberals had to destroy McCarthy because he exposed the entire liberal establishment as having sheltered Soviet spies." -conservative Republican commentator Ann Coulter defending the memory of the former Junior Senator from Wisconson.

Just rented and watched "Good Night and Good Luck". Makes us proud to be liberals.

Yeah, no sh*t. That movie was awesome. Makes me proud to stand up for what I believe in and shout to the hills that Bush, the emperor, has no clothes!

Did you guys see my stem cell thread?

I think Ann Coulter has been effectively marginalized and exposed as an absolute psycho nutbag by now... (One can only hope.)

[blondeandblue]

Originally Posted by Tony&Cheri

"I know he got a bad rap because there are no monuments to Joe McCarthy. Liberals had to destroy McCarthy because he exposed the entire liberal establishment as having sheltered Soviet spies." -conservative Republican commentator Ann Coulter defending the memory of the former Junior Senator from Wisconson.

Just rented and watched "Good Night and Good Luck". Makes me proud to be a liberal.

-Tony

Yeah...scary movie. It reminded me of the Salem Witch Trials. They don't seem to know why that got so far out of control, either. I remember an interview with George Clooney where he told of sitting with some studio execs (don't remember who) while they were watching some of the first completed scenes of the film. The execs said that everything looked great, David Strathairn was fantastic as Murrow, but "the guy playing McCarthy is way over the top". Duh.

[Tony&Cheri]

Originally Posted by blondeandblue

Yeah...scary movie. It reminded me of the Salem Witch Trials. .

Arthur Miller thought so too. The Crucible (1953)

[blondeandblue]

Originally Posted by Tony&Cheri

Arthur Miller thought so too. The Crucible (1953)

Great book. Always wondered how accurate it was.

edit-I guess what I should have said was, is that really all it was? OK I get the whole woman scorned, curse in the woods, must be Satan thing, but what the heck sent a community of friends and neighbors into such an insane frenzy that something like 20 people were dead before it was over?

Same question about the public response to McCarthy's hearings. What made so many people go along with it so easily?

[PlayadelSoul]

Robert Kennedy worked for McCarthy.

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

Robert Kennedy worked for McCarthy.

Does this make you feel better about Robert Kennedy or Joe McCarthy?

[PlayadelSoul]

Originally Posted by Jacko

Does this make you feel better about Robert Kennedy or Joe McCarthy?

I don't like either one of them, as I consider both of them political opportunists looking to get their name in the paper rather than having any real conviciton. Just don't want the high horse to be to hard to get off of. McCarthy had plenty of help, from all parts of the political spectrum.

[Just Lucky]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

I don't like either one of them, as I consider both of them political opportunists looking to get their name in the paper rather than having any real conviciton. Just don't want the high horse to be to hard to get off of. McCarthy had plenty of help, from all parts of the political spectrum.

Eleanor Roosevelt never supported him nor did many others on the left in the US. My understanding was that Bobby Kennedy was both an anti-commmunist and an anti-facist. He resigned his position as counsel to the committee over disagreements with McCarty's tactics in 1953.

[Tony&Cheri]

Joe McCarthy's relationship with Bob Kennedy was minimal. Kennedy was not a politician at the time. Fresh out of law school his very rich father got him a job working for the Senate committee chaired by McCarthy. McCarthy's right hand man and main enforcer, Roy Cohen and Kennedy became life-long bitter enemies. To suggest that Kennedy was somehow responsible for McCarthyism is a distortion of the facts.

The relationship of RFK and McCarthy wasn't nearly as personal and close and mysterious as say the relationship between Jack Abranoff and the current resident of the White House.

The early fifties was a tough time for the U.S. The consolidation of the Soviet eastern bloc and the rise of Mao in the east, combined with the proliferation of nuclear weapons, put a hard edge on both parties. Democrats and Repulicans both were staunch anti-Communists. It was the right thing to be at the time. However, Joe McCarthy took it a step further. Communism had not always been a direct threat to the US or US interests. McCarthy decided that being anti-Communist meant destroying the lives of anyone who had flirted with Communism as a concept 20 years before or had expressed support for the Soviet Union (our staunch ally) during WWII. McCarthy was an alcoholic demagogue who took advantage of the fear of his times (I will not draw comparisons and take this topic off track). However, lets be clear that Joe McCarthy was a Republican baby. He had the support of his party and for political reasons, the Republican party embraced him until he totally lost control. Then they turned their back on him but never had the cojones (hey! I live in Mexico now!) to condemn him. Don't try and pawn McCarthy off on us liberals.

Come on now PDS, admit that all you conservatives have a shrine to Tail Gunner Joe in the basement next to your Ann Coulter pin-ups.

-Tony

[PlayadelSoul]

Originally Posted by Just Lucky

Eleanor Roosevelt never supported him nor did many others on the left in the US. My understanding was that Bobby Kennedy was both an anti-commmunist and an anti-facist. He resigned his position as counsel to the committee over disagreements with McCarty's tactics in 1953.

Not many people did like his tactics (myself included), but many of his accusations were proven to be true, years later. The State Department was full of Soviet sympathizers and spies. George Clooney (who, by the way, is one of my favorite actors, political or not) left that part out, which is understandable. It should go as another lesson to not use movies as history books.

[cuffedlinks]

Since his death. I've thought the revelations about J. Edgar Hoover have been interesting. Perhaps no one man wielded more power during his career in DC.

[PlayadelSoul]

Originally Posted by cuffedlinks

Since his death. I've thought the revelations about J. Edgar Hoover have been interesting. Perhaps no one man wielded more power during his career in DC.

That is a movie, if done well, that I would like to see. Of course, being Hollywood, they would probably leave out the parts that didn't fit into the preconceptions.

[Just Lucky]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

Not many people did like his tactics (myself included), but many of his accusations were proven to be true, years later. The State Department was full of Soviet sympathizers and spies. George Clooney (who, by the way, is one of my favorite actors, political or not) left that part out, which is understandable. It should go as another lesson to not use movies as history books.

Very interesting. Do you have some proof of this or perhaps a list?

[Tony&Cheri]

Originally Posted by blondeandblue

Same question about the public response to McCarthy's hearings. What made so many people go along with it so easily?

Take a fear. Give it a capital F. Fear of God's punishment. Fear of the devil. Fear of your own sexuality. Fear of the H bomb. Fear of dying. Fear for your children's future. Now give it a target. Witchcraft. Communism. Feed that fear and direct it to the target. The release of that fear into the crowd mentality becomes a powerful thing for the person directing it, be it minister, senator or President. Make the fear and the target absolutes. Anyone who questions the leader or the war must be part of the other side. Make people afraid to question or disagree. With us or against us. Now you have the Salem Witch Trials. Krystalnach. The Soviet purges. McCarthyism.

-Tony