Mel Gibson and the ADL

[Shredman]

From CNN 8/1/2006
"The Anti-Defamation League, which combats anti-Semitism and other forms of hatred, issued a statement branding Gibson an anti-Semite.
"Mel Gibson's apology is unremorseful and insufficient. It's not a proper apology because it does not go to the essence of his bigotry and his anti-Semitism," said ADL National Director Abraham Foxman.
Gibson faced accusations of anti-Semitism during the publicity storm that surrounded his 2004 film "The Passion of the Christ." Foxman wrote that Gibson's "tirade finally reveals his true self" and shows his previous claims "that he is such a tolerant, loving person, were a sham."
Foxman added, "We would hope that Hollywood now would realize the bigot in their midst and that they will distance themselves from this anti-Semite."


Is this a reasonable and proportionate response from the ADL - or is this the thought police making an example out of Mel for his historically accurate portrayal of the role of Jews in the Passion of The Christ, and to deflect or discourage criticism of Israel during the current aggression in the middle east? Is Mel an anti-semite, or does he have opinions on Israel's actions that are not in line with the PC group-think?

[sctx]

let Mel suffer the same fate as the actors that ran their mouths about the president.... the public will shun him at their discretion and hurt him in the wallet and he will learn to keep his mouth shut.

[Doggiemom]

I hear he went straight to rehab after that.....

[UGAplaya]

He sincerely apologized for his actions and has admitted to having a struggle with alcohol addiction. Time for everyone to move on in my opinion.

[Shredman]

Originally Posted by sctx

let Mel suffer the same fate as the actors that ran their mouths about the president.... the public will shun him at their discretion and hurt him in the wallet and he will learn to keep his mouth shut.

You mean like Michael Moore? I believe his criticism of Bush made him a bozillionaire.

I wonder if it is a good thing to have an organization such as the ADL whose sole purpose is to teach people to keep their mouth shut?

[sctx]

Originally Posted by Shredman

You mean like Michael Moore? I believe his criticism of Bush made him a bozillionaire.

I wonder if it is a good thing to have an organization such as the ADL whose sole purpose is to teach people to keep their mouth shut?

I was thinking more along the lines of the Dixie chick, Whoopi and others. Not suggesting people keep their mouths shut as long as they deal with the consequences. Can't remember Mel ever making any comments such as these, and I hope he does see some backlash from the public for his drunken rant....but I don't see it as anything more than a drunken rant, which, I'm sure the cop is used to. Maybe Craig can chime in and let us know if he has ever taken and drunken "whitey" slurs personally.

[PlayadelSoul]

Originally Posted by Shredman

You mean like Michael Moore? I believe his criticism of Bush made him a bozillionaire.

I wonder if it is a good thing to have an organization such as the ADL whose sole purpose is to teach people to keep their mouth shut?

Big difference between being a blowhard political activist and accusing an entire race of people of being responsible for every war the world has ever known. I think only an anti-semite would support those words.

As a former drunk, I said some stupid and hurtful things when I was drinking. I didn't always believe what I was saying, but my being drunk was not a valid excuse. He should make amends. It is not up to him or me or anyone but the offended, whether his apologies are accepted or not.

[sunrlb]

Isn't Mel's father who rants on about the Holocaust and how it never happened Me thinks Mel said just what he felt, which is fine with me. I would rather know who the bigots are than not.

How about him calling the in-take female officer sugar tits? LMAO Hubby called me sugar tits all day yesterday. He thought that was a good line.

[PlayadelSoul]

I read that he was supposed to be doing a mini-series for ABC about the Holocaust. It has been cancelled.

[Tony&Cheri]

Originally Posted by Shredman

Is this a reasonable and proportionate response from the ADL - or is this the thought police making an example out of Mel for his historically accurate portrayal of the role of Jews in the Passion of The Christ, and to deflect or discourage criticism of Israel during the current aggression in the middle east? Is Mel an anti-semite, or does he have opinions on Israel's actions that are not in line with the PC group-think?

Wow! There is a lot going on in this post. Let’s see if I can touch on the high points:
<O:p
“Thought Police”. “PC group think”. Why is it when we disagree with an opinion we have to denigrate the person holding that opinion? The ADL has no ability to enforce their opinion, they can only express it. There is no “police” power in that. They can’t force you to accept their opinion or control your response, only ask you to consider their point of view. As far as the woefully over and misused title of “PC”, ALL opinions are either PC or un -PC depending on the side you the argument you stand on. It really doesn’t bear on the content of the debate.
<O:p
“Historically accurate portrayal of Jews in the Passion of the Christ”. It is my understanding that the movie took it’s structure not from historical studies of Jesus and his times, but from the written records of “visions” of a seventeenth century nun. Moreover, scholars agree that the New Testament Gospels were written long after the death of Jesus, were hand copied and edited for a couple of centuries , have NO independent corroboration by other sources and thus cannot be considered historically correct. (this does not reflect on the theological correctness of the gospels, only their historical value). For more on the topic of the role of the Jewish community in the Crucifixion of Jesus check out “Misquoting Jesus” by Bart Ehrman. Mr. Ehrman shows how early versions of the New Testament were changed to fix the responsibility of Jesus’ death on Jews and away from the Romans , changes made by the early church leaders based in….ROME!
<O:p
The ADL’s “sole purpose is to teach people to keep their mouths shut”. The ADL appears to often pose extreme views. But let’s put it in context. The Jews have been an international scapegoat for anger and hatred long before the creation of the state of <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:country-region w:st="on"><ST1:pIsrael</st1:country-region>. Centuries of wholesale slaughter, oppressive laws, social ostracism, all culminated in the holocaust. For an organization which is extreme in its position regarding attitudes about Jews to spring forth from this history is not surprising. And, again the ADL cannot force people to “shut their mouths”. They can only present a point of view which can be accepted, considered or ignored as the recipient wishes.
<O:p
Mel’s “opinions <st1:country-region w:st="on">on"Israel</ST1:p</st1:country-region>’s actions”. I don’t think this is about Mel’s views on the Middle-east. When he demands to know if his arresting officer is “a Jew” there is more going on than a political discussion.
<O:p
I think the Mr. Gibson’s demons are his own business and I truly hope his struggles with them are successful. I know from personal experience that recovery roads can be long, difficult and sometimes a little shaky. He has my sympathy and my best wishes. Personally I think the ADL was over the top on this one and Mr. Gibsons post arrest statement a good one. But neither do I think the ADL or any organization which watches over the rights of people should be criticized for taking a stand or issuing an opinion. Exercise of the Bill of Rights can be disagreed with but should not be condemned.
<O:p
Most importantly I think Mel’s best picture was Tequila Sunrise. <st1:City w:st="on"><ST1:p</st1:City>

[Shredman]

Originally Posted by Tony&Cheri

Wow! There is a lot going on in this post. Let’s see if I can touch on the high points:
<O:p
“Thought Police”. “PC group think”. Why is it when we disagree with an opinion we have to denigrate the person holding that opinion? The ADL has no ability to enforce their opinion, they can only express it. There is no “police” power in that. They can’t force you to accept their opinion or control your response, only ask you to consider their point of view. As far as the woefully over and misused title of “PC”, ALL opinions are either PC or un -PC depending on the side you the argument you stand on. It really doesn’t bear on the content of the debate.
<O:p
“Historically accurate portrayal of Jews in the Passion of the Christ”. It is my understanding that the movie took it’s structure not from historical studies of Jesus and his times, but from the written records of “visions” of a seventeenth century nun. Moreover, scholars agree that the New Testament Gospels were written long after the death of Jesus, were hand copied and edited for a couple of centuries , have NO independent corroboration by other sources and thus cannot be considered historically correct. (this does not reflect on the theological correctness of the gospels, only their historical value). For more on the topic of the role of the Jewish community in the Crucifixion of Jesus check out “Misquoting Jesus” by Bart Ehrman. Mr. Ehrman shows how early versions of the New Testament were changed to fix the responsibility of Jesus’ death on Jews and away from the Romans , changes made by the early church leaders based in….ROME!
<O:p
The ADL’s “sole purpose is to teach people to keep their mouths shut”. The ADL appears to often pose extreme views. But let’s put it in context. The Jews have been an international scapegoat for anger and hatred long before the creation of the state of <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:country-region w:st="on"><ST1:pIsrael</st1:country-region>. Centuries of wholesale slaughter, oppressive laws, social ostracism, all culminated in the holocaust. For an organization which is extreme in its position regarding attitudes about Jews to spring forth from this history is not surprising. And, again the ADL cannot force people to “shut their mouths”. They can only present a point of view which can be accepted, considered or ignored as the recipient wishes.
<O:p
Mel’s “opinions <st1:country-region w:st="on">on"Israel</ST1:p</st1:country-region>’s actions”. I don’t think this is about Mel’s views on the Middle-east. When he demands to know if his arresting officer is “a Jew” there is more going on than a political discussion.
<O:p
I think the Mr. Gibson’s demons are his own business and I truly hope his struggles with them are successful. I know from personal experience that recovery roads can be long, difficult and sometimes a little shaky. He has my sympathy and my best wishes. Personally I think the ADL was over the top on this one and Mr. Gibsons post arrest statement a good one. But neither do I think the ADL or any organization which watches over the rights of people should be criticized for taking a stand or issuing an opinion. Exercise of the Bill of Rights can be disagreed with but should not be condemned.
<O:p
Most importantly I think Mel’s best picture was Tequila Sunrise. <st1:City w:st="on"><ST1:p</st1:City>

A very thoughtful and lucid response. I just spent 20 minutes responding to it, and got logged out and my comments were lost logging in.

Bottom line, sctx said it best - he'll learn to keep his mouth shut. If you haven't already, read Ann Coulter's The New Thought Police. It is dated, but she can make my points far more lucidly, than can I.

I am not a big Mel fan but will rent Tequilla Sunrise this weekend on your recommendation.

[Nerak936]

I think the saddest part of the whole Mel Gibson thing is the fact that everyone is making such a big deal out of the fact that he ran off at the mouth after being stopped by the police. Yes, the shite that was coming out of his pie hole was just that: shite.

BUT....... what about the fact that he was DRIVING DRUNK??!!! THAT is what's so damn horrible (IMHO).

Running off at the mouth and making a total a-hole out of yourself won't kill anyone , whereas DRIVING DRUNK can and does.

[Tony&Cheri]

Originally Posted by Shredman

A very thoughtful and lucid response. I just spent 20 minutes responding to it, and got logged out and my comments were lost logging in.

Bottom line, sctx said it best - he'll learn to keep his mouth shut. If you haven't already, read Ann Coulter's The New Thought Police. It is dated, but she can make my points far more lucidly, than can I.

I am not a big Mel fan but will rent Tequilla Sunrise this weekend on your recommendation.

Ann Coulter!!!! You know how I said opinions should be considered, argued against, accepted or ignored? Ms. Coulter is on my lifetime ignore list. I find no value in her commentary.

Tequila Sunrise. Great flick. Mel as a maybe retired Drug Dealer, Kurt Russell as his best friend and a top narcotics cop, and Michelle Pfeiffer as the girl they both want. Raul Julia steals the show as a Mexican police officer and there is that nude hot tub scene with Michelle. Papa T says "Thumbs Up"!!

[Shredman]

[quote=Tony&Cheri]Ann Coulter!!!! You know how I said opinions should be considered, argued against, accepted or ignored? Ms. Coulter is on my lifetime ignore list. I find no value in her commentary.[quote]

You will most certainly find no value in anything that you will not read

[Jodeci]

Originally Posted by sunrlb

Isn't Mel's father who rants on about the Holocaust and how it never happened Me thinks Mel said just what he felt, which is fine with me. I would rather know who the bigots are than not.

His father is well known for saying these things and Mel was asked directly about his father's beliefs and refused to say anything bad about his father. Understandable, but in light of his recent outburst, makes you think that it may be because he shares some of his father's beliefs.

And I agree that his driving drunk is a more serious and immediate threat to the population as a whole and I hope that his entering rehab is not the only "penalty" he incurs.