Common Sense Obit

[Seakony]

OBITUARY

Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend,
Common Sense, who had been with us for many years. No
one knows for sure how old he was since his birth
records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape.

He will be remembered as having cultivated such
va luable lessons as knowing when to come in out of the
rain, why the early bird gets the worm, life isn't
always fair, and maybe it was my fault. Common Sense
lived by simple, sound financial policies(don't spend
more than you earn) and reliable parenting strategies
(adults, not children, are in charge).

His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well
intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in
place. Reports of a six-year- old boy charged with
sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens
suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch;
and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly
student, only worsened his condition. Common Sense
lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing
the job they themselves failed to do in disciplining
their unruly children. It declined even further when
schools were required to get parental consent to
administer Tylenol, sun lotion or a Band Aid to a
stu dent - but could not inform the parents when a
student became pregnant and wanted to have an
abortion.

Common Sense lost the will to live as the Ten
Commandments became contraband, churches became
businesses, and criminals received better treatment
than their victims. Common Sense took a beating when
you couldn't defend yourself from a burglar in your
own home and the burglar can sue you for assault.
Common Sense finally gave up the will to live after a
woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee
was hot. She spilled a little in her lap, and was
promptly awarded a huge settlement.

Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents,
Truth and Trust; his wife, Discretion; his daughter,
Responsibility; and his son, Reason. He is survived by
three stepbrothers; I Know My Rights, Someone Else Is
To Blame, and I'm A Victim. Not many attended his
funeral because so few realized he was gone.

If you still remember him, pass this on. If not, join
the majority and do nothing.

[Icon oclast]

Exactly, we are loving the little monsters to death. Stuffing their faces and minds with garbage.

[Life_N_Cancun]

So True......

[Tony&Cheri]

What passes as common sense is sometimes common fable. I don't know all of the facts about all of the items in this piece but as a former lawyer (Cheri says a "recovering" lawyer) I have read alot of articles and commentary about the case of the woman who

"failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee
was hot. She spilled a little in her lap, and was
promptly awarded a huge settlement."

This is often used as an example by talk show hosts of how the world has gone haywire, when someone sues because their coffee is too hot. Let's look at the real facts. The woman in question spilled McDonalds coffee in her lap. Should she expect it to be hot? Of course! But it wasn't just hot. It was 185 degrees hot. Hot enough to cause third degree burns upon contact! And that is what happened. This woman was so badly burned it permanently and horribly scarred her genitals,thighs and buttocks. Burn your finger with a match until it blisters. Painful? You bet. And that is not a third degree burn. Now imagine your crotch burned like that. Not a pleasant thought is it? A third degree burn will often cause excrutiating pain for the rest of the victims life.

This woman did not recieve a settlement "promptly". She sued. And a jury of people just like us, the people on this forum, gave her a huge reward. So why did a jury give her a lot of money? Not just because of the pain but because at the trial McDonalds admitted that they kept their coffee at 185 degrees, acknowledging that they knew that was a scalding temperature (how did they know? Over ten years worth of complaints and burned customers - including children - which they had settled out of court. ). McD also admitted that they knew the restaurant industry standard for coffee temperature was 120 degrees, which was not scalding and would not peel away skin on contact.They kept their coffee at an unaceptable 185 so they could brag their coffee was still hot by the time you got to work. Yeah, hot enough to peel the finish of your desk! After losing the case, McDonalds settled with the woman during the appeal process.

Here is a company that appears to have ignored industry safety standards, ignored a history of problems and complaints and ended up severly injuring someone who only wanted a cup of coffee.

I hate to be a spoil sport about this. It's nice sometimes to thing things were better in the old days, that the world today is just too tough on good hard working people and that the lazy cheaters get ahead. As Hemingway said, "Wouldn't it be pretty to think so." The truth is sometimes more complex and deserves a little more thought.

BTW as a result MickeyD lowered the temperature of its' coffee.

- Tony

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by Tony&Cheri

What passes as common sense is sometimes common fable. I don't know all of the facts about all of the items in this piece but as a former lawyer (Cheri says a "recovering" lawyer) I have read alot of articles and commentary about the case of the woman who

"failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee
was hot. She spilled a little in her lap, and was
promptly awarded a huge settlement."

This is often used as an example by talk show hosts of how the world has gone haywire, when someone sues because their coffee is too hot. Let's look at the real facts. The woman in question spilled McDonalds coffee in her lap. Should she expect it to be hot? Of course! But it wasn't just hot. It was 185 degrees hot. Hot enough to cause third degree burns upon contact! And that is what happened. This woman was so badly burned it permanently and horribly scarred her genitals,thighs and buttocks. Burn your finger with a match until it blisters. Painful? You bet. And that is not a third degree burn. Now imagine your crotch burnt like that. Not a pleasant thought is it? A third degree burn will often cause excrutiating pain for the rest of the victims life.

This woman did not recieve a settlement "promptly". She sued. And a jury of people just like us, the people on this forum, gave her a huge reward. So why did a jury give her a lot of money? Not just because of the pain but because at the trial McDonalds admitted that they kept their coffee at 185 degrees, acknowledging that they knew that was a scalding temperature (how did they know? Over ten years worth of complaints and burned customers - including children - which they had settled out of court. ). McD also admitted that they knew the restaurant industry standard for coffee temperature was 120 degrees, which was not scalding and would not peel away skin on contact.They kept their coffee at an unaceptable 185 so they could brag their coffee was still hot by the time you got to work. Yeah, hot enough to peel the finish of your desk! After losing the case, McDonalds settled with the woman during the appeal process.

Here is a company that appears to have ignored industry safety standards, ignored a history of problems and complaints and ended up severly injuring someone who only wanted a cup of coffee.

I hate to be a spoil sport about this. It's nice sometimes to thing things were better in the old days, that the world today is just too easy on good hard working people and that the lazy cheaters get ahead. As Hemingway said, "Wouldn't it be pretty to think so." The truth is sometimes more complex and deserves a little more thought.

BTW as a result MickeyD lowered the temperature of its'coffee.

- Tony

Rationality Revealed

[Seakony]

Originally Posted by Tony&Cheri

What passes as common sense is sometimes common fable. I don't know all of the facts about all of the items in this piece but as a former lawyer (Cheri says a "recovering" lawyer) I have read alot of articles and commentary about the case of the woman who

"failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee
was hot. She spilled a little in her lap, and was
promptly awarded a huge settlement."

This is often used as an example by talk show hosts of how the world has gone haywire, when someone sues because their coffee is too hot. Let's look at the real facts. The woman in question spilled McDonalds coffee in her lap. Should she expect it to be hot? Of course! But it wasn't just hot. It was 185 degrees hot. Hot enough to cause third degree burns upon contact! And that is what happened. This woman was so badly burned it permanently and horribly scarred her genitals,thighs and buttocks. Burn your finger with a match until it blisters. Painful? You bet. And that is not a third degree burn. Now imagine your crotch burned like that. Not a pleasant thought is it? A third degree burn will often cause excrutiating pain for the rest of the victims life.

This woman did not recieve a settlement "promptly". She sued. And a jury of people just like us, the people on this forum, gave her a huge reward. So why did a jury give her a lot of money? Not just because of the pain but because at the trial McDonalds admitted that they kept their coffee at 185 degrees, acknowledging that they knew that was a scalding temperature (how did they know? Over ten years worth of complaints and burned customers - including children - which they had settled out of court. ). McD also admitted that they knew the restaurant industry standard for coffee temperature was 120 degrees, which was not scalding and would not peel away skin on contact.They kept their coffee at an unaceptable 185 so they could brag their coffee was still hot by the time you got to work. Yeah, hot enough to peel the finish of your desk! After losing the case, McDonalds settled with the woman during the appeal process.

Here is a company that appears to have ignored industry safety standards, ignored a history of problems and complaints and ended up severly injuring someone who only wanted a cup of coffee.

I hate to be a spoil sport about this. It's nice sometimes to thing things were better in the old days, that the world today is just too tough on good hard working people and that the lazy cheaters get ahead. As Hemingway said, "Wouldn't it be pretty to think so." The truth is sometimes more complex and deserves a little more thought.

BTW as a result MickeyD lowered the temperature of its' coffee.

- Tony

And it just goes to show you how stupid people are... what nut job would put a hot cup of coffee between their legs (crotch area) in a moving car? Common sense is the topic.

[Donna]

Common sense also keeps up with the times.What was once common sense does not make it common sense now!

[PlayadelSoul]

The merits of the coffee case aside, the USA should change its name to SueSA. With all due respect to lawyers, there are too many tort attorneys running around, looking for lawsuits to hit that one big score.

[Tony&Cheri]

Originally Posted by Seakony

And it just goes to show you how stupid people are... what nut job would put a hot cup of coffee between their legs (crotch area) in a moving car? Common sense is the topic.

Well, actually the quote from the piece you offered didn't use "coffee in the crotch "as an example of lack of common sense, it referenced the settlement. The quote you used didn't say anything about the coffee being between the woman's legs. In fact, the burn occurred while the woman was sitting in a parked car holding the coffee in her lap when she spilled it while trying to get the lid off. It was never held between her legs.

Seakony, I don't disagree with the proposition of your piece that common sense is often not practiced in the modern world. However, my point was that sometimes what we initially see as stupid or pc or unecessary can have a whole other reference when all the facts are known.

[Seakony]

About the law.... Judge Judy shows lots of people with no clue. I have sat and watched a few court sessions... baffled at the jury;s decision.....or a judges decision. If the is a hole in the ground, and it has barracades around it with warnings, and some fool decides to cross over the barracades and fall into it, who's fault is that?

[Seakony]

.Edit.... too many different versions.

[Tony&Cheri]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

The merits of the coffee case aside, the USA should change its name to SueSA. With all due respect to lawyers, there are too many tort attorneys running around, looking for lawsuits to hit that one big score.

As opposed to too many corporate lawyers looking for loopholes for their corporate clients? As oppossed to too many Insurance companies who stonewall the little guy who has been damaged or injured, forcing him to find a lawyer? As oppossed to Corporations who find it easier to pay for a million dollar death suit rather than fix a 10 cent piece of some machine because in the long run it will cost more? More than lobbysts and politicians who buy and sell our laws everyday?

Sure there are sleazy lawyers, corrupt politicians and bad teachers who skate by on tenure. Pick a proffesion and you will find inadequate, unsavory people. Tort lawyers are a popular target now. Why? Because of a full court press by Insurance companies , their lobbysts and the Politicians who take their money.

One big score? It takes years, hundreds if not thousands of hours and usually hundreds of thousands of dollars of the attorney's money to even get a tort case of any size to trial. Big score? Most tort lawyers woiuld agree it would be faster and easier to go to Vegas and play Red on the roulette wheel.

The Tort Lawyers bar is an honorable proffession. Many, I think most work ungodly hours against the money and weight of super-corps to expose wrongdoing. Yes, there are abulance chasers, but there are guys who devote their carreers to exposing cars with faulty gas systems, who expose companies who pollute rivers upstream from populations , who fight everyday, not for the big guys but for the individual who often has no one to speak for him.

[MargaritaLupita]

Originally Posted by Tony&Cheri

McD also admitted that they knew the restaurant industry standard for coffee temperature was 120 degrees, which was not scalding and would not peel away skin on contact.They kept their coffee at an unaceptable 185
Here is a company that appears to have ignored industry safety standards, ignored a history of problems and complaints and ended up severly injuring someone who only wanted a cup of coffee.


- Tony

Just a point in fact no coffee anywhere is served at 120 degrees, that is luke warm and would be perfect for bacteria. The coffee industry standard for brewing is 185 and holding at 165. No hot items should be held below 140 due to potential food born illness.

[abuelo]

Originally Posted by MargaritaLupita

Just a point in fact no coffee anywhere is served at 120 degrees, that is luke warm and would be perfect for bacteria. The coffee industry standard for brewing is 185 and holding at 165. No hot items should be held below 140 due to potential food born illness.

I agree, 120 would be cold to taste. 140 would be ok, but most people want their coffee at 180 which would be industry standards.

[Tony&Cheri]

Originally Posted by MargaritaLupita

Just a point in fact no coffee anywhere is served at 120 degrees, that is luke warm and would be perfect for bacteria. The coffee industry standard for brewing is 185 and holding at 165. No hot items should be held below 140 due to potential food born illness.

Sorry, I was using brewing and serving terms interchangably. McD testified that its coffee was heated to a point to maintain 185 degrees holding temp. The serving/holding temp was the issue. McD now has a holding temp of 156, below the burn line.

Hey! I thought you didn't like these "serious"threads!