A Thread To Argue About The Estate Tax

[StewartG]

I recently started a thread trying to generate interest and awareness in the elimination of the "widow's tax." I have asked that the thread not become political, so I have created this thread for those who would like to argue about this issue.

I would prefer to keep the other thread solely focused on the "widow's tax," which, is, of course not a tax at all, but rather an administrative process which results in a marked reduction of pension benefits for widows of deceased servicemen. This is an issue which I think (unlike the estate tax), we can all agree upon, so I would like to keep that thread "clean."

If anyone feels the need to "vent" about the estate tax, I would ask that they do so here.

Thanks!

[Edit] If you are interested, my original thread about the "widow's tax" can be found here:

http://www.playa.info/playa-del-carm...idows-tax.html

Put please, lets try to keep the politics here. Thanks!

[DavidB]

I'll bite. Get rid of it. If you've managed to save some money in spite of the goverment taxing it every step of the way then your family deserves it.

[Dallas91]

This thread arises as a small subset from another post (the Widow Tax) as to what is morally right or wrong to do to death benefit recipients.

Estate Taxes:
Basically it is double taxation. Take what needs to be taken on the front end and don't screw with the welfare (benefits) of my friends/family/church/loved ones/charities/etc..... that I bequeath what was accumulated beyond the point that the government had considered to have been taxed fairly.

EDIT: WOO HOO, 1000 POSTS! WHO KNEW IT WOULD BE DURING A POLITICAL THREAD?!! WTF?!

[DavidB]

Originally Posted by Dallas91

EDIT: WOO HOO, 1000 POSTS!

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by StewartG

I recently started a thread trying to generate interest and awareness in the elimination of the "widow's tax." I have asked that the thread not become political, so I have created this thread for those who would like to argue about this issue.

I would prefer to keep the other thread solely focused on the "widow's tax," which, is, of course not a tax at all, but rather an administrative process which results in a marked reduction of pension benefits for widows of deceased servicemen. This is an issue which I think (unlike the estate tax), we can all agree upon, so I would like to keep that thread "clean."

If anyone feels the need to "vent" about the estate tax, I would ask that they do so here.
Thanks!

[Edit] If you are interested, my original thread about the "widow's tax" can be found here:

http://www.playa.info/playa-del-carm...idows-tax.html

Put please, lets try to keep the politics here. Thanks!

Good luck on your attempt to control our mob!

[StewartG]

I don't see what all the hoopla is about. I see "1001" posts! Seriously though, congrats!

On to the estate tax...

You guys DO realize that this is a tax which only effects the very richest 1 to 2 percent of Americans right?

You may be surprised to learn that one of the BIGGEST advocates for keeping the estate tax in place, is none other than...



...Bill Gates.

It is also supported by billionaires Warren Buffet and David Rockefeller. Oh, and Bill Gates' dad, as well.

Apparently, Mr. Gates feels that the very richest among us (the only ones affected) should pay the tax because their riches would not be possible without a strong society supporting capitalism.

The fact is, the estate tax is one of the most progressive taxes on the books. That is to say, it taxes the uber-wealthy and leaves the rest of us alone.

The U.S. government is currently deriving approximately 30 billion a year by taxing the Hiltons, the Rockerfellers, etc when they die. If that tax is repealed, who will end up picking up the tab? I'll give you a hint - look in a mirror.

It is typical of the right wing to try to "own" an issue by nomenclature - calling it the "death tax" and using their normal PR chicanery to stir up resentment against it. Fact is, it will likely not effect any of us in any significant way. The irony of listening to Rush prattle on and on about the "death tax" is that it will likely only effect him, and won't have ANY effect on 98 percent of his listeners. Of course, if George Bush (junior OR senior) listens to Rush, they will fall under the 2 percent effected. (Awwww.... )

And by the way, don't forget... It's not the "death tax," its the "Paris Hilton tax!"

[Dallas91]

Originally Posted by StewartG

I don't see what all the hoopla is about. I see "1001" posts! Seriously though, congrats!

Thanks. I knew it wasn't far off, but snuck up on me. Yeah, the thrill has already worn off. I'll be a Repasado for eternity now.

You guys DO realize that this is a tax which only effects the very richest 1 to 2 percent of Americans right?

Yep, perfectly clear. Let's give extra penalty's for doing what we say we can do in America. Have a better life. Work hard, succeed, and earn your forturne. I guess they left out, be taxed on your fortune. Oh, and when you die and can't do anything about it, we are going to tax you again.

You may be surprised to learn that one of the BIGGEST advocates for keeping the estate tax in place, is none other than... ...Bill Gates.

No he's got it good having "stolen technology" and made billions from it. Small price to pay for that. I do give kudos for his entreprenueral (sp, sorry) spirit and the impact his products have had on our nation.

The U.S. government is currently deriving approximately 30 billion a year by taxing the Hiltons, the Rockerfellers, etc when they die. If that tax is repealed, who will end up picking up the tab? I'll give you a hint - look in a mirror.

And we have tiered federal income tax rates to compensate for that. It's not like they are going to say, oh, we need 30 billion more so let's tax everyone an additional equal amount in taxes. If the income tax system is broken, then fix it. Don't come back saying now that your dead, we want more because we couldn't get it right the first time.

It is typical of the right wing to try to "own" an issue by nomenclature - calling it the "death tax" and using their normal PR chicanery to stir up resentment against it. Fact is, it will likely not effect any of us in any significant way.

Spoken like someone who can only lean left or right. I dare say there is middle ground. I truly hope you are wrong as I would LOVE for it to affect me and I hope the problem is corrected by such time.

The irony of listening to Rush prattle on and on about the "death tax" is that it will likely only effect him, and won't have ANY effect on 98 percent of his listeners. Of course, if George Bush (junior OR senior) listens to Rush, they will fall under the 2 percent. (Awwww.... )

So because we don't like someone or may be silently envious of their wealth/fortune, we should punish them once they die. Right, I see your arguement here

And by the way, don't forget... It's not the "death tax," its the "Paris Hilton tax!"

Proof that money cannot buy common sense.

[PlayadelSoul]

Who cares if only hurts the rich? Taxing a dead man is just plain wrong. Your guys, who love playing the poor against the rich, might think it is just another victory for the little guy, but it is more akin to kicking a guy after you have beaten him to death. Only a Democrat could tax a dead guy. "BRING OUT YOUR DEAD IN 2008, Vote Democratic!"

[ThrushJockey]

Originally Posted by DavidB

I'll bite. Get rid of it. If you've managed to save some money in spite of the goverment taxing it every step of the way then your family deserves it.

DITTO!

As usual David, right on the money.

No pun intended.

[StewartG]

Originally Posted by Dallas91

Yep, perfectly clear. Let's give extra penalty's for doing what we say we can do in America. Have a better life. Work hard, succeed, and earn your forturne. I guess they left out, be taxed on your fortune. Oh, and when you die and can't do anything about it, we are going to tax you again.

. . .

And we have tiered federal income tax rates to compensate for that. It's not like they are going to say, oh, we need 30 billion more so let's tax everyone an additional equal amount in taxes. If the income tax system is broken, then fix it. Don't come back saying now that your dead, we want more because we couldn't get it right the first time.

From the line emphasized above, I think I can safely assume that you agree with the idea of a progressive tax (taxing the wealthiest more than the poor). I just want to make sure we're on the same page about this, because the HARD CORE neo-cons (PDS, where are you? ) believe in a "flat tax."

Assuming you agree with the idea of a progressive tax, and assuming you can agree with the idea that the estate tax is the most progressive tax there is, let me ask you this: What's the difference between taxing the rich when they are dead and when they are alive?

Let me make the point this way. I would have NO PROBLEM with a COMPLETE repeal of the estate tax AS LONG AS the lost revenue was made up with a tax equally as progressive. (Say, something like... A repeal of the Bush income tax cut for himself and the other of the wealthiest Americans around?)

Originally Posted by Dallas91

No he's got it good having "stolen technology" and made billions from it. Small price to pay for that. I do give kudos for his entreprenueral (sp, sorry) spirit and the impact his products have had on our nation.

Another tactic of the right - if you don't like the message - attack the messenger...

Originally Posted by Dallas91

Spoken like someone who can only lean left or right. . .

Truth is, I lean pretty far right on several political issues. There is actually one member of the board to whom I've disclosed all these issues, but she has been sworn to secrecy!

[Just Lucky]

Since Teddy Roosevelt was one of the first Presidents to push for the estate tax, the Roosevelt Institution has put together a very enlightning paper about it. Here:http://rooseveltinstitution.org/news...ing_Repeal.pdf Since it is in PDF I am not sure how to cut and paste any of the more important points.

[StewartG]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

Who cares if only hurts the rich? Taxing a dead man is just plain wrong. Your guys, who love playing the poor against the rich, might think it is just another victory for the little guy, but it is more akin to kicking a guy after you have beaten him to death. Only a Democrat could tax a dead guy. "BRING OUT YOUR DEAD IN 2008, Vote Democratic!"

Mark - do you believe in progressive taxation, or do you feel that the U.S. should implement a "flat tax" system?

[StewartG]

Originally Posted by ThrushJockey

DITTO!

As usual David, right on the money.

No pun intended.

How do be pay the government's bills then, exactly?

How do we make up the 1% shortfall in our income which would result from a repeal of the estate tax? Are you interested in chipping in your "milk money" for that? Are you willing to financially "fall on your sword" so that the Hilton kids can buy that extra Maybach or seven?

I just love the way the MASSIVE PR machine of the right has managed to convince SO MANY hard working Americans to hold views which are DIRECTLY opposed to their own economic interests!

[sctx]

Originally Posted by StewartG

There is actually one member of the board to whom I've disclosed all these issues, but she has been sworn to secrecy!

well, I'll be getting that board member drunk on tequila 2nite and exposing your secrets

[Dallas91]

Originally Posted by StewartG

Assuming you agree with the idea of a progressive tax, and assuming you can agree with the idea that the estate tax is the most progressive tax there is, let me ask you this: What's the difference between taxing the rich when they are dead and when they are alive?

If it is what I consider fair, yes, a progressive tax works. The difference? Why it is the same agrument you raise regarding the Widow Tax. Is it right to reduce benefits going to a widow (yes, I know semantics. It's not a tax. Fine, it is a reduction and a penatly for dying). So, I say it is penalty for dying and thus "I" believe that if you were asked "Sir, do you want to be taxed now or would you prefer we give your spouse less to live on by taxing you when you die" you would likely choose the former as you want to have a pretty firm grasp on what your spouse will be left when you die. That, to me, is a big difference.

Let me make the point this way. I would have NO PROBLEM with a COMPLETE repeal of the estate tax AS LONG AS the lost revenue was made up with a tax equally as progressive.

Cool.

Another tactic of the right - if you don't like the message - attack the messenger...

So, I guess once again if I wasn't liberal or conservative I'd have to be a moderate and let biased comments like that go as if I had no opinion at all.


I respect our right to have differences of opinion (not saying you don't).