A greater tragedy??

[MargaritaLupita]

Stuck at work today, so not much in the party mood. Thought I would google some numbers.
WORLD TRADE CENTER DEATH TOLL:2752
U.S.SOLDIERS KILLED IN IRAQ:2621
U.S.SOLDIERS WOUNDED IN IRAQ:19323
Yes I am comparing the two. We all as a nation had a similar or united reaction to the events of 9/11. As a nation we are pretty divided in our feeling towards the Iraq war. I do believe one led to the other. The nations psyche was in a “lets kick some ass kind of mood”. Now most politicians are taking the stance that we made a mistake or backpedaling in order to get reelected. Is spreading our brand of democracy a justifiable reason for current status of our nation?? Flip flopping on issues has been used as a political negative, is that the same as admitting you were wrong?
Because I live in an area that a large portion of the population is military and I have a nephew in Iraq. I have learned first hand the deep moral commitment to our nation that those serving feel, and would not want to disrespect the memory of those lost.
I would like to hear from some normal peeps a justifiable reason for where we are now?
Would simply pulling out and admitting it was a mistake be more of a tragedy than the loss of an additional 2000 or 3000 in the name of democracy?

[jx2]

Originally Posted by MargaritaLupita

Stuck at work today, so not much in the party mood. Thought I would google some numbers.
WORLD TRADE CENTER DEATH TOLL:2752
U.S.SOLDIERS KILLED IN IRAQ:2621
U.S.SOLDIERS WOUNDED IN IRAQ:19323
Yes I am comparing the two. We all as a nation had a similar or united reaction to the events of 9/11. As a nation we are pretty divided in our feeling towards the Iraq war. I do believe one led to the other. The nations psyche was in a “lets kick some ass kind of mood”. Now most politicians are taking the stance that we made a mistake or backpedaling in order to get reelected. Is spreading our brand of democracy a justifiable reason for current status of our nation?? Flip flopping on issues has been used as a political negative, is that the same as admitting you were wrong?
Because I live in an area that a large portion of the population is military and I have a nephew in Iraq. I have learned first hand the deep moral commitment to our nation that those serving feel, and would not want to disrespect the memory of those lost.
I would like to hear from some normal peeps a justifiable reason for where we are know?
Would simply pulling out and admitting it was a mistake be more of a tragedy than the loss of an additional 2000 or 3000 in the name of democracy?

I think you may have narrowed your possible responder list to much :p

[sctx]

wow, 2700 dead at WTc in 90 minutes...that surpasses Omaha Beach doesn't it?

[MargaritaLupita]

Originally Posted by sctx

wow, 2700 dead at WTc in 90 minutes...that surpasses Omaha Beach doesn't it?

Anouther google:
Casualty estimates for Allied forces vary, but range from 2,500 to more than 5,000 dead on D-Day. Adding to the confusion is that D-Day books and histories often count wounded, missing and troops taken prisoner.
On its Web site, the D-Day Museum in Portsmouth, England, says an estimated 2,500 Allied troops died. The U.S. Army Center of Military History (search) in Washington, D.C., numbers 6,036 American casualties, including wounded and missing. The Heritage Foundation in Washington estimates 4,900 dead.

Yah, I did think of that, in comparison to even one battle of previous wars the current death toll is small. I would guess from a military strategy standpoint, to overthrow a regime and replace it with a new and improved government, 3000 deaths is a downright sanitary operation. War is an industry and we run an efficient operation. Just wondering if this business acquisition is good for the parent company?

[STOGEY]

Originally Posted by sctx

wow, 2700 dead at WTc in 90 minutes...that surpasses Omaha Beach doesn't it?

The first shot fired at us in WWII at Pearl Harbour killed less peopple then at 9/11. Then again most of the people killed at Pearl Harbour were military. Those kiilled on 9/11 were mostly civilian not including the ones at the Pentagon

[Lil G]

Originally Posted by STOGEY

The first shot fired at us in WWII at Pearl Harbour killed less peopple then at 9/11. Then again most of the people killed at Pearl Harbour were military. Those kiilled on 9/11 were mostly civilian not including the ones at the Pentagon

You set it straight STOGEY!

[Cosmo]

Thought only normal peeps were to respond..:p

[horizon200]

Originally Posted by MargaritaLupita

Anouther google:
Casualty estimates for Allied forces vary, but range from 2,500 to more than 5,000 dead on D-Day. Adding to the confusion is that D-Day books and histories often count wounded, missing and troops taken prisoner.
On its Web site, the D-Day Museum in Portsmouth, England, says an estimated 2,500 Allied troops died. The U.S. Army Center of Military History (search) in Washington, D.C., numbers 6,036 American casualties, including wounded and missing. The Heritage Foundation in Washington estimates 4,900 dead.

Yah, I did think of that, in comparison to even one battle of previous wars the current death toll is small. I would guess from a military strategy standpoint, to overthrow a regime and replace it with a new and improved government, 3000 deaths is a downright sanitary operation. War is an industry and we run an efficient operation. Just wondering if this business acquisition is good for the parent company?

You are right there...compare it to Iwo Jima. In a one month operation:

Total Losses
U.S. personnel 6,821 Killed 19,217 Wounded 2,648 Combat Fatigue Total 28,686
Marine Casualties 23,573

Japanese Troops 1,083 POW and 20,000 est. Killed


Final Analysis of the Battle
The Naval bombardment of only 3 days leading up to the invasion was far short than what was required. The Marines had requested 13 days of prelanding bombardment but were denied this request because of commitments to MaCarthur's campaign in Luzon.
The U.S. had underestimated the Japanese strenght on the island by as much as 70 percent.
The change in Japanese tactics was not ever contemplated because of earlier invasions on Saipan, Tarawa and Peleliu. These all had early Banzai attacks that were easily defeated and turned the tide of each invasion. This would not be the case with Iwo Jima.
The nature and the difficulty of the soil on the island was never examined before the invasion.
The estimates made on the U.S. casualties was underestimated by 80 percent. 23,000 Casualties out of 70,000 Marines. Over third of the total Marines who participated in the invasion were either Killed, Wounded or suffered from Battle Fatigue.
This would be a strong warning of what was to come with the invasion of Okinawa.

Battle for Okinawa:

Casualties totaled more than 38,000 Americans wounded and 12,000 killed or missing, more than 107,000 Japanese and Okinawan conscripts killed, and perhaps 100,000 Okinawan civilians who perished in the battle.

[Lil G]

Originally Posted by MargaritaLupita

Stuck at work today, so not much in the party mood. Thought I would google some numbers.
WORLD TRADE CENTER DEATH TOLL:2752
U.S.SOLDIERS KILLED IN IRAQ:2621
U.S.SOLDIERS WOUNDED IN IRAQ:19323
Yes I am comparing the two. We all as a nation had a similar or united reaction to the events of 9/11. As a nation we are pretty divided in our feeling towards the Iraq war. I do believe one led to the other. The nations psyche was in a “lets kick some ass kind of mood”. Now most politicians are taking the stance that we made a mistake or backpedaling in order to get reelected. Is spreading our brand of democracy a justifiable reason for current status of our nation?? Flip flopping on issues has been used as a political negative, is that the same as admitting you were wrong?
Because I live in an area that a large portion of the population is military and I have a nephew in Iraq. I have learned first hand the deep moral commitment to our nation that those serving feel, and would not want to disrespect the memory of those lost.
I would like to hear from some normal peeps a justifiable reason for where we are now?
Would simply pulling out and admitting it was a mistake be more of a tragedy than the loss of an additional 2000 or 3000 in the name of democracy?

Leaving at this point is not an option. We went in after being snubbed for....what 13 (so sorry, usless UN) different sanctions? We have to finish what was started. Most the military that I have talked to, talk about building schools, getting running water where there wasn't...very positive stuff.....there are very positive things going on...you just don't hear about them. All we get is....a soldier was killed today............................................. . (conspriacy theory..al jazeera over her?_

[Banzoomba]

Originally Posted by Lil G

Leaving at this point is not an option. We went in after being snubbed for....what 13 (so sorry, usless UN) different sanctions? We have to finish what was started. Most the military that I have talked to, talk about building schools, getting running water where there wasn't...very positive stuff.....there are very positive things going on...you just don't hear about them. All we get is....a soldier was killed today............................................. . (conspriacy theory..al jazeera over her?_

I agree ... but won't say to much because Iam not a " normal peep"

[alwaysmissinpdc]

Originally Posted by Banzoomba

I agree ... but won't say to much because Iam not a " normal peep"

I agree also. With Lil G that is. I have no idea what a normal peep is...do they exist?

[MargaritaLupita]

O.K. get off the normal peep thing, I should have said non-media or just peeps. Never seen anyone take offence to being called normal
I am not taking sides....yet, just trying to get some debate on a "Just Cause" Is it the job of our military to build schools and water systems? Yes, I know I have heard the Pottery barn theory and yah we certainly broke it. Is fixing our leaderships mistakes worth the lives of our children?

[PlayadelSoul]

Originally Posted by MargaritaLupita

O.K. get off the normal peep thing, I should have said non-media or just peeps. Never seen anyone take offence to being called normal
I am not taking sides....yet, just trying to get some debate on a "Just Cause" Is it the job of our military to build schools and water systems? Yes, I know I have heard the Pottery barn theory and yah we certainly broke it. Is fixing our leaderships mistakes worth the lives of our children?

Well, obviously you are taking sides.

With all the talk of inept leadership in the White House and Pentagon, you would think the numbers would be far worse. Vietnam, it is not.

[MikeW]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

Well, obviously you are taking sides.

With all the talk of inept leadership in the White House and Pentagon, you would think the numbers would be far worse. Vietnam, it is not.

No, it's Iraq.
No trees to defoliage.

[sctx]

Originally Posted by MikeW

No, it's Iraq.
No trees to defoliage.

there are a few camels to neuter though