Raise the young offenders limit?

[Ginger]

Since Susie is staring political threads now, I though her fellow sistah should also jump in...

I don't know if this subject is limited to Canada as I don't know the young offender law in the US, but a story is circulating in our local news (link here) about some boys between the ages of 8 and 11 who put a physically challenged boy into a shed and lit it on fire. Because these boys are under 12, they are not punishable by law (in Canada).

What are your thoughts here? Should they raise the young offender age? Are boys this young accountable for their actions, shoudl they be held accountable for wrong and right? To what degree? Should they be incarcerated?

I don't know what the answer is...but I have my concerns. I am of the belief that children and young adults are not held accountable for their actions anymore in our society and that is why the proliferation of youth in trouble in our countries. But I think this accountability has to start at a young age, and in the home AND in the school system. You can't just suddently start holding them accountable at 12. I also don't think the answer is to throw 8 year olds into the prison system. And I refuse to listen to the argument regarding youth detention, as I very well know that youth detention is a very freightening place and is often quite a worse place than an adult prison system. A child coming out of a youth detention facility is never going to be rehabilitated. That's a fact.

Another angle...if you lower the young offender age, how can you justify RAISING the age of legal consent (for sex, etc.)? If on one hand you are saying a child of 8 is old enough to know right from wrong and to make those decisions, that how can you say that are not old enough in this other instance? So in this case, myself I can't justify the lower age of legal accountability. However, I could morally justify having an intermediary age of accountability, where counselling, mediation, etc. must be ordered for children and/or parents of children involved in such crimes as the story I linked to above.

Any thoughts?

[beer_dude]

In the US I think the kids/offenders/murders? would be charged as adults and incarcerated for a very long time. I think that there should be zero tolerance for that type of behavior regardless of the age. Their parents must really be peaches to turn out such wonderfull kids.

Okay I read the article so strike murders. they are lucky the didnt kill the poor kid. I think there should be consequences for your actions no matter what age.

[PlayadelSoul]

They should be sentenced like adults, and then make the parents do the time.

[sctx]

Originally Posted by Ginger

I don't know if this subject is limited to Canada as I don't know the young offender law in the US, but a story is circulating in our local news (link here) about some boys between the ages of 8 and 11 who put a physically challenged boy into a shed and lit it on fire.

the exact same thing happened to me when I was 9 years old, the 3 culprits were a couple of years older. Very scary, luckily, I discovered the wonders of adrenaline and was able to bust thru the door before I passed out from smoke inhalation..... I came close to dying that morning (in addition to setting the wood shed on fire, they piled a buch of roofing tar paper on the floor and lit that), and then later, I came very close to ending up in juvenile detention for getting a little carried away with the administering of justice. All three boys involved got 6 months probation, which, by itself, probably wouldn't have changed anything about their behaviour or respect for others, but coupled with the Louisville Slugger imprints on their bodies........"spare the rod, spoil the child"....there's something to that old saying

[fireinmn]

Originally Posted by sctx

the exact same thing happened to me when I was 9 years old, the 3 culprits were a couple of years older. Very scary, luckily, I discovered the wonders of adrenaline and was able to bust thru the door before I passed out from smoke inhalation..... I came close to dying that morning (in addition to setting the wood shed on fire, they piled a buch of roofing tar paper on the floor and lit that), and then later, I came very close to ending up in juvenile detention for getting a little carried away with the administering of justice. All three boys involved got 6 months probation, which, by itself, probably wouldn't have changed anything about their behaviour or respect for others, but coupled with the Louisville Slugger imprints on their bodies........"spare the rod, spoil the child"....there's something to that old saying

That's a horrible story...sorry you had to endure that, glad you made it out alive!

Any idea what these boys turned into as adults??? Law abiding or in jail...

[sctx]

Originally Posted by fireinmn

Any idea what these boys turned into as adults??? Law abiding or in jail...

don't really know, we moved from Tulsa a couple of years later. The guy that started it was pretty much a neighborhood bully anyway, so I doubt he stayed out of trouble for the rest of his teenage years.......but, in their defense, I've always seemed to have a knack for getting my ass kicked by multiple foes

[fireinmn]

Originally Posted by sctx

don't really know, we moved from Tulsa a couple of years later. The guy that started it was pretty much a neighborhood bully anyway, so I doubt he stayed out of trouble for the rest of his teenage years.......but, in their defense, I've always seemed to have a knack for getting my ass kicked by multiple foes

Must be the hight... I dated a couple of tall guys in my day and damn they were magnets for guys starting fights with them - for no apparent reason. I figured it was the little guys thinking they were all tough - just like when teenage boys want to fight their dads

[ZAEM]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

They should be sentenced like adults, and then make the parents do the time.

I think Im with PD on this one. I can't even think about that being done to a child and by kids that young. Where do they come up with these ideas?
Im a parent of a special needs child and would hate think of him being put into that kind of danger. Can't trust anyone!
I say lower the age and give them the worst possible. I understand what you (Ginger) about youth detention. And jail isn't going to do what they need. Prisons are over crowded as it is-we can't start throwing youngins in there too. But there must be something that would hold them accountable for their actions. Don't know what it is--I hope I never have to find out.

[Seakony]

If they started holding more parents responsible for their kids actions....they would think twice about having kids they cannot afford or take the time to teach them to behave correctly.

[ZAEM]

Originally Posted by Seakony

If they started holding more parents responsible for their kids actions....they would think twice about having kids they cannot afford or take the time to teach them to behave correctly.

Very true!

[wired529]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

They should be sentenced like adults, and then make the parents do the time.

can't always blame the parents...some of them do everything humanly possible to raise children who know and respect right from wrong yet their children do the complete opposite.

[sctx]

Originally Posted by wired529

can't always blame the parents...some of them do everything humanly possible to raise children who know and respect right from wrong yet their children do the complete opposite.

yep, the "preachers daugther syndrome"

[Jacko]

The children should be helped.

[sctx]

Originally Posted by Jacko

The children should be helped.

I think you may be right in this case, since it may be deemed a hate crime.... possibly 2000 hours of working with the physically disabled or something along those lines.

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by sctx

I think you may be right in this case, since it may be deemed a hate crime.... possibly 2000 hours of working with the physically disabled or something along those lines.

That's what I'm talking about!