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Old 10-29-2006   #46 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Seakony
Global warming and cooling has been happening over the past 2000 centuries. What Pollutants caused that? And....why don't those scientists try to stop volcanic eruptions???? They cause more damage to the athmosphere than anything else? You doomsayers need to find more cheerful things to read. Oh yeah, wasn't California supposed to fall into the sea 20 years ago? Weren't we supposed to see 19 bad hurricanes this year? All they can do is predict and it's only 50/50 at best.
You mix what the scientists say and what you read in the news. We are able to do something about man made global warming and this report says its economic profitable. The economics are why some politicians deny it, isn't it?
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Old 10-29-2006   #47 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Thor Henning
You mix what the scientists say and what you read in the news. We are able to do something about man made global warming and this report says its economic profitable. The economics are why some politicians deny it, isn't it?
That report states what we will pay if we do not act. What it neglects to mention is what it will cost if we do.
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Old 10-29-2006   #48 (permalink)
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That report states what we will pay if we do not act. What it neglects to mention is what it will cost if we do.
No, it doesn't.
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Old 10-29-2006   #49 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Thor Henning
You mix what the scientists say and what you read in the news. We are able to do something about man made global warming and this report says its economic profitable. The economics are why some politicians deny it, isn't it?
No....I think politicians and world leaders are just like the scientists....always flip-flopping. And...like politicians, scientists also depend on government money to support themselves.
Thor, who's jobs and livelihood are you willing to sacrifice? What other pleasures are you willing to give up? Where will you get hold of a new tire, new insulation for your home, all the stuff that is manufatured and cause some pollution? What are you willing to sacrifice?

Last edited by Seakony; 10-29-2006 at 05:56 PM..
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Old 10-29-2006   #50 (permalink)
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Here is a fun website, Thor.

http://www.junkscience.com/MSU_Temps/Kyoto_Count_Up.htm
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Old 10-29-2006   #51 (permalink)
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Again, I agree. Maybe if the politicians would stop running for office for a few days, they might actually find that they agree, too. I doubt it, however.

Not to change the subject, but I think we have invested power to the President that does not belong in his office (Clinton, Bush 1, Reagan, and Carter, too). I believe Congress has completely neglected its duties, since right around the time of Vietnam. I understand the logic behind it, as Congressmen can blame the President if anything goes wrong, and still take credit when it goes right. However, I think they poorly serve the people (Dems and Repubs). It is shameful, really. If the American public sits by while Congress abdicates its powers to the Pres, they really should not be upset when the Pres becomes a King.

It is not the job of the President to make environmental laws. He just needs to sign them, which this President will inevitably do because he cannot spell VETO.
Ah....but the President has the power of the bully pulpit at least.......so lets not let them off the hook so easily....
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Old 10-29-2006   #52 (permalink)
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Ah....but the President has the power of the bully pulpit at least.......so lets not let them off the hook so easily....
Well, this President is a little tied up with more pressing bully pulpit issues, I think. Funny thing is, when he uses it, people call him a "bully".
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Old 10-29-2006   #53 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Thor Henning
You are absolutly right Michael:

Total carbon emissions (million metric tonnes of CO2)
US
1984: 4,597.85
2004: 5,912.21
China
1984: 1,707.91
2004: 4,707.28
Thats a 28% increase for the US, but a 175% increase in China. At these rates China will pass us as the largest polluter.
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Old 10-29-2006   #54 (permalink)
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Well, this President is a little tied up with more pressing bully pulpit issues, I think. Funny thing is, when he uses it, people call him a "bully".
He tied himself up with these issues unnecessarily I am afraid.....but that is another thread.
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Old 10-29-2006   #55 (permalink)
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He tied himself up with these issues unnecessarily I am afraid.....but that is another thread.
Well, his biggest issue is the war on terror, and I do not think he went into office expecting that be on the menu. Whether you agree on Iraq or not, the President views it as a part of the overall strategy to fight terror. That is his bully pulpit issue, and I do think he had much choice thanks to Usama.
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Old 10-30-2006   #56 (permalink)
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Well, his biggest issue is the war on terror, and I do not think he went into office expecting that be on the menu. Whether you agree on Iraq or not, the President views it as a part of the overall strategy to fight terror. That is his bully pulpit issue, and I do think he had much choice thanks to Usama.
How does fighting in Iraq stem the threat of terror and what does Osama have to do with Iraq? And what do we do if the president was....well.....er....just wrong?

Getting back on topic, this article, from the potentially liberal New York Times , says we seem to have lost our focus as a country on the energy issues.....

In the United States, annual federal spending for all energy research and development — not just the research aimed at climate-friendly technologies — is less than half what it was a quarter-century ago. It has sunk to $3 billion a year in the current budget from an inflation-adjusted peak of $7.7 billion in 1979, according to several different studies.

Click here...... We are spending about $378 billion on the Iraq war.....or about $255 million per day......and this kinda describes the problem with the private sector solving these issues for us (from the NY Times article)......

In the private sector, studies show that energy companies have a long tradition of eschewing long-term technology quests because of the lack of short-term payoffs.

Still, there is some hope outlined in the article....we just need our citizens to care a little more about the problem and to encourage our politicians to put more of our resources focused on solving the issues for the longer term..whether you call it global warming, high energy prices, dirty air and lakes, foreign oil dependency or whatever.....

Last edited by Jacko; 10-30-2006 at 09:04 AM..
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Old 10-30-2006   #57 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Seakony
Thor, who's jobs and livelihood are you willing to sacrifice? What other pleasures are you willing to give up? Where will you get hold of a new tire, new insulation for your home, all the stuff that is manufatured and cause some pollution? What are you willing to sacrifice?
In this report I was talking about it's about greenhouse gases I guess. And probably that is the most important.

It's all over the media about this report here in Norway today. It's like I was guessing. How about Germany? Have you read about it?
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Old 10-30-2006   #58 (permalink)
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I am all for trying to be more environmentally aware and doing some things to help but all the hysteria makes me cynical.

I believe some of it, but not all of it.
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Old 10-30-2006   #59 (permalink)
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From USA Today

CHARLOTTE AMALIE, U.S. Virgin Islands — Researchers fear more than half the world's coral reefs could die in less than 25 years and say global warming may at least partly to blame.
Sea temperatures are rising, weakening the reefs' resistance to increased pollutants, such as runoff from construction sites and toxins from boat paints. The fragile reefs are hosts to countless marine plants and animals.

"Think of it as a high school chemistry class," said Billy Causey, the Caribbean and Gulf Mexico director of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

"You mix some chemicals together and nothing happens. You crank up the Bunsen burner and all of a sudden things start bubbling around. That's what's happening. That global Bunsen burner is cranking up."

Causey was one of some 200 private and government researchers from the Caribbean, Florida and U.S. Pacific islands who gathered in St. Thomas for a meeting of the NOAA's U.S. Coral Reef Task Force.

Last year's coral loss in the Caribbean waters supports predictions that 60% of the world's coral could die within a quarter century, said Tyler Smith of the University of the Virgin Islands.

"Given current rates of degradation of reef habitats, this is a plausible prediction," Smith said.

More than 47% of the coral in underwater study sites covering 31 acres around the U.S. Virgin Islands died after sea temperatures exceeded the norm for three months in 2005, said Jeff Miller, a scientist with the Virgin Islands National Park.

The unusual warm water can stress coral, causing it to lose its pigment and making it more vulnerable to disease.

This year, Caribbean coral narrowly avoided another widespread episode of bleaching when sea temperatures briefly surpassed levels considered healthy for reefs.

Up to 30% of the world's coral reefs have died in the last 50 years, and another 30% are severely damaged, said Smith, who studies coral health in the U.S. Virgin Islands and collaborates with researchers globally.

"U.S. Virgin Islands coral today is likely at its lowest levels in recorded history," Smith said.

The researchers said global warming was a potential cause of the abnormally high sea temperatures but was not the only suspect in the reefs' demise.

What causes disease in coral can be hard to pinpoint and could be a combination of things. Other threats include silt runoff from construction sites, which prevents the coral from getting enough sunlight, and a record increase in fleshy, green algae, which competes with coral for sunlight.

"Climate change is an important factor that is influencing coral reefs worldwide," said Mark Eakin, director of NOAA's Coral Reef Watch. "It adds to the other problems that we are having."
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Old 10-30-2006   #60 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TAPPY


From USA Today

CHARLOTTE AMALIE, U.S. Virgin Islands — Researchers fear more than half the world's coral reefs could die in less than 25 years and say global warming may at least partly to blame.
Sea temperatures are rising, weakening the reefs' resistance to increased pollutants, such as runoff from construction sites and toxins from boat paints. The fragile reefs are hosts to countless marine plants and animals.

"Think of it as a high school chemistry class," said Billy Causey, the Caribbean and Gulf Mexico director of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

"You mix some chemicals together and nothing happens. You crank up the Bunsen burner and all of a sudden things start bubbling around. That's what's happening. That global Bunsen burner is cranking up."

Causey was one of some 200 private and government researchers from the Caribbean, Florida and U.S. Pacific islands who gathered in St. Thomas for a meeting of the NOAA's U.S. Coral Reef Task Force.

Last year's coral loss in the Caribbean waters supports predictions that 60% of the world's coral could die within a quarter century, said Tyler Smith of the University of the Virgin Islands.

"Given current rates of degradation of reef habitats, this is a plausible prediction," Smith said.

More than 47% of the coral in underwater study sites covering 31 acres around the U.S. Virgin Islands died after sea temperatures exceeded the norm for three months in 2005, said Jeff Miller, a scientist with the Virgin Islands National Park.

The unusual warm water can stress coral, causing it to lose its pigment and making it more vulnerable to disease.

This year, Caribbean coral narrowly avoided another widespread episode of bleaching when sea temperatures briefly surpassed levels considered healthy for reefs.

Up to 30% of the world's coral reefs have died in the last 50 years, and another 30% are severely damaged, said Smith, who studies coral health in the U.S. Virgin Islands and collaborates with researchers globally.

"U.S. Virgin Islands coral today is likely at its lowest levels in recorded history," Smith said.

The researchers said global warming was a potential cause of the abnormally high sea temperatures but was not the only suspect in the reefs' demise.

What causes disease in coral can be hard to pinpoint and could be a combination of things. Other threats include silt runoff from construction sites, which prevents the coral from getting enough sunlight, and a record increase in fleshy, green algae, which competes with coral for sunlight.

"Climate change is an important factor that is influencing coral reefs worldwide," said Mark Eakin, director of NOAA's Coral Reef Watch. "It adds to the other problems that we are having."
Not to mention all the tourism and hurricanes that also add to the problem.
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