Rangle wants to re-instate the draft!

[MWC]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

The call for a draft is a political move done to scare the public with the aim of further diminishing their resolve. Not only do we have to fight the enemy in Iraq, it also seems that we now have a new front in the war on terror right at home. .

By Rangel's own admission, his draft motion is intended to give politicians pause before committing troops to an action. Is that lessening of resolve? Or simply making sure all options are thoroughly explored before making such a serious commitment? As I recall, therte was no timeline hanging over our head for entering Iraq.
As I said before, I do not think I am alone in feeling as though this war is being conducted painlessly from my point of view. I'm not proud of it, but there you go.

IMHO the most immediate, dangerous front on the war on terror has ALWAYS been right at home. All the assets that are being expended in Iraq could have been put to more productive use here, on intelligence gathering, port and border protection ...

[MikeW]

I'm all for a 2 year enlistment to serve your country, except our leaders haven proven their ineptitude by putting our nations children harms way by entering into conflicts we should never have gotten into. Our children and citizens have been killed, maimed, suffer pschological damage in these wars; that we pull out of later because of various reasons.

I do not want a draft when we are lead by idiots.

[kirbyfan]

Originally Posted by MikeW

I'm all for a 2 year enlistment to serve your country, except our leaders haven proven their ineptitude by putting our nations children harms way by entering into conflicts we should never have gotten into. Our children and citizens have been killed, maimed, suffer pschological damage in these wars; that we pull out of later because of various reasons.

I do not want a draft when we are lead by idiots.

[Icon oclast]

Originally Posted by MWC

By Rangel's own admission, his draft motion is intended to give politicians pause before committing troops to an action. Is that lessening of resolve? Or simply making sure all options are thoroughly explored before making such a serious commitment? As I recall, therte was no timeline hanging over our head for entering Iraq.
As I said before, I do not think I am alone in feeling as though this war is being conducted painlessly from my point of view. I'm not proud of it, but there you go.

IMHO the most immediate, dangerous front on the war on terror has ALWAYS been right at home. All the assets that are being expended in Iraq could have been put to more productive use here, on intelligence gathering, port and border protection ...

The painless mantra is a red herring. It wasn't painless to our family and the families of at least 3 other families on our block alone whose children served in Iraq. It affects the whole community and extended family. What you mean is that there is no rationing etc. Also the fact that some of you contend that a volunteer military alows our leaders to sacrifice the lives of our troops needlesly is an elitist and very offensive idea.

[Seakony]

I watched a documentary....Seem Iran already has more influence in Iraq than The US.

[horizon200]

Originally Posted by Jacko

According to the General in charge (and Senator McCain), a draft would be the only possible course of action to improve the situation in Iraq....they suggest we need a LOT more troops in the short term...and they believe we would not be able to muster sufficient troops any other way.....

Originally Posted by xqqzme

From an economic standpoint, I think reinstituting the draft would be wasteful ...of life and $$$. It costs the govt (you and me) a considerable sum to train today's military. I'd like to think that the people who voluntarily join have a reasonable percentage that stay longer than their initial enlistment, making the govt's $$ in their training a better investment. What a waste of resources to draft someone, train them (which is no simple cheap proposition in today's world), and have them leave after their two to four years). I'm not even going to go down the 'morality' road on this....I lived through the 60s and early 70s and all that brought with it

Two interesting points! So we are reducing the size of our military to the tune of thousands...while at the same time thinking about re-instituting a draft, that will both help with the number of troops we need in Iraq and help share the pain and suffering so we will get out of Iraq.....

Ok so now we have a smaller force due to the cuts, which Rummy maintained was because we need a smaller leaner force capable of using high tech weapons ratehr than brute strength and ignorance (paraphrased obviously). We start a draft and bring in people that don't want to be there and they will be operating the weapons and leading the grunts that you ultimately need to take over real estate (who also don't want to be there)!

I'm with Papa T on this one...let's take care of the force that we have! Let's show the society that it's ok to be a military member by taking care fo the veterans not cutting the Gauranteed for life beneifts that were supposed to be there. Let's stop cutting the military in favor of golf programs for inner city kids!

By the way, Wiley Post said that America always waits until we are in a war to prepare for war. It seems though that this time we are in a war and we are cutting the military...makes perfect sense.....to someone!

[itsmysecondtime]

Originally Posted by roni

I think more of the sons and daughters of middle-class and up US residents need to be exposed to the horrors of war.

No doubt. Children of congresspeople should be the first to be drafted.

More than equal rights to become cannon fodder.

That's my ticket.

Ron, veteran during a draft era.

Ditto!!!

Not only should they be among first to be drafted, the children of the president should be the very first in line, and if the president in question has no children, then the next of kin should do so.

Moreover, reinstating the draft would be most effective if all the provisions exempting higher education and politically connected folk were irreversibly abolished. Furthermore, new penalties would have to be implemented with full certainty, celerity and severity regarding draft dodgers, such that those most apt and able to evade the draft would place extreme hardship upon their families, i.e. having a brother of a sister serve in place of the draft dodger, while the father or mother would be incarcerated for as long as the dodger remained at large.

In short, make the process equitable and universal, such that those Americans deemed more equal than the rest of us would ultimately pay with the same coin as those of us currently carrying this unfair, unequal and unjust burden.

Who knows, we might even see a serious debate on the very issues that matter the most in this democracy. A collective discourse on the merits of this madness of invading Iraq, and possibly Iran would certainly be rejuvenating enough to avert further tragedies.

[itsmysecondtime]

Originally Posted by horizon200

... Let's stop cutting the military in favor of golf programs for inner city kids!...

Not only is this disingenuous, it is disturbingly offensive.
Scapegoat the worse off. What's new?

[itsmysecondtime]

Originally Posted by Icon oclast

...Also the fact that some of you contend that a volunteer military alows our leaders to sacrifice the lives of our troops needlesly is an elitist and very offensive idea.

[itsmysecondtime]

Originally Posted by Icon oclast

The painless mantra is a red herring...

How many members of Congress have had to sacrifice their loved ones in this conflict? And for those remarkable few who do/did have their kids there, how many are serving in the low echelons of command?

[kirbyfan]

Originally Posted by itsmysecondtime

Ditto!!!

Not only should they be among first to be drafted, the children of the president should be the very first in line, and if the president in question has no children, then the next of kin should do so.

Moreover, reinstating the draft would be most effective if all the provisions exempting higher education and politically connected folk were irreversibly abolished. Furthermore, new penalties would have to be implemented with full certainty, celerity and severity regarding draft dodgers, such that those most apt and able to evade the draft would place extreme hardship upon their families, i.e. having a brother of a sister serve in place of the draft dodger, while the father or mother would be incarcerated for as long as the dodger remained at large.

In short, make the process equitable and universal, such that those Americans deemed more equal than the rest of us would ultimately pay with the same coin as those of us currently carrying this unfair, unequal and unjust burden.

Who knows, we might even see a serious debate on the very issues that matter the most in this democracy. A collective discourse on the merits of this madness of invading Iraq, and possibly Iran would certainly be rejuvenating enough to avert further tragedies.

Ya and maybe monkeys will fly out of my butt!

[kirbyfan]

Originally Posted by itsmysecondtime

And for those remarkable few who do/did have their kids there, how many are serving in the low echelons of command?

Well yaaa! For the most part that makes sense if you know anything about it. If you are going to be an officer you have to have an education and who is more likely to have an extensive education than a senators child?

[TAPPY]

Originally Posted by horizon200

I'm with Papa T on this one...let's take care of the force that we have! Let's show the society that it's ok to be a military member by taking care fo the veterans not cutting the Gauranteed for life beneifts that were supposed to be there. Let's stop cutting the military in favor of golf programs for inner city kids!

I will Ditto PapaTs opinion on this one as well. It is time for us to take care of those who serve our country. I am all for better benefits and pay for veterans.

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by TAPPY

I will Ditto PapaTs opinion on this one as well. It is time for us to take care of those who serve our country. I am all for better benefits and pay for veterans.

Ditto, again!

[kirbyfan]

Originally Posted by itsmysecondtime

How many members of Congress have had to sacrifice their loved ones in this conflict?

Ya! I agree!!!

Oh but not the Democratic Senators, they were fooled into voting for this war so they should have an exemption right?...or maybe not as they are rich elitists! Wait, I forget are we playing the class warefare game or is it the Conservative blame game, i cant remember. We have to figure that out first before we can start saying which Senators children should go to war I think.