Is "Apocalypto" Pornography?

[Thor Henning]

Originally Posted by Bill B

Playa del Carmen is located in a region where the term "Maya" is quite successfully exploited. In one example of this situation, Traci Ardren, assistant professor of anthropology at the University of Miami challenges Mel Gibson's use of the ancient Maya culture as a metaphor for his vision of today's world. Food for thought:

Is Apocalypto Pornography?

I saw this movie this week, and I must say I'm disappointed. And I agree mostly to this article. I wouldn't call the movie pornography though. Rape is more precisely expressed.

[Rissask]

Rape??

There is another thread about Apocalypto Thor, here.



I had posted in this thread before I watched it, once I saw it, I disagreed with the premise in the article.

I mean, it's an action movie, of course it's going to be violent- does any eudcated moviegoer think that an action movie about cops portrays a typical day in the life of a typical policeman, of course not.

From the article:

And who really cares that the Maya were not living in cities when the Spanish arrived? Yes, Gibson includes the arrival of clearly Christian missionaries (these guys are too clean to be conquistadors) in the last five minutes of the story (in the real world the Spanish arrived 300 years after the last Maya city was abandoned).

I commented on that too in the other thread- it was silly and obviously a huge mistake in the historical timeline- unfortunate because some people will think that is how it really was (that the Mayan civilization was still at a peak when the missionaries came.)

Unfortunate too, as the movie never needed that scene to point out that the Mayans were doing a pretty good job destroying themselves from within, without any outside intervention needed.

But I never got the feeling as the author seemed to, that Mel included the spotting of the Spanish to portray the idea that the Mayans needed saving from themselves!
Not at all- they looked awed but terrified, and then Jaguar Paw went to hide from them and live in the forest. I thought it was more of a wrap up, 'end of an era' sadness he was trying to get across- that the arrival of the Spanish was a bad, not a good thing.
Maybe what you get out of it depends upon your own mindset.

I don't buy that this movie exploited the Mayan people. First and foremost it was an action movie and Mel's aim like most filmmakers was to make money- so the exclusion of the more 'boring' aspects is not surprising.
And like the author even (grudgingly) mentions, no society in history has been free of brutal violence.

And what do you think about this? Even the Mayans themselves reacted positively to the movie when they saw it.

Contrary to the omens that the film would not have a warm reception in Mexico, it registered a wider number of viewers than Perfume and Rocky Balboa. It even displaced memorable Mexican premieres such as Titanic and Poseidon.[20] And according to polls performed by the newspaper Reforma, 80% of polled Mexicans labeled the film as “very good” or “good”[20]

So who are we, as white outsiders, to be all affronted and disgusted by it on their behalf?
It's their history after all, not ours.

[Thor Henning]

Yes, i did a search and there are in fact 4 threads about Apocalypto. The reason I was disappointed was I thought this would be a movie that told us one of the possibilities how the Mayan cities was abandoned. But this was just nonsense and clichés. I think the Mayans were "raped" in this movie. Used for a purpose and left behind.

[TeeZet]

Originally Posted by Thor Henning

Yes, i did a search and there are in fact 4 threads about Apocalypto. The reason I was disappointed was I thought this would be a movie that told us one of the possibilities how the Mayan cities was abandoned. But this was just nonsense and clichés. I think the Mayans were "raped" in this movie. Used for a purpose and left behind.

I'm sorry to see you were disappointed, Thor. But it's a Hollywood movie, and not a documentary. Not even a docu-drama. You see events on a screen through the director's eyes.
I thought it was entertaining. But then I had hardly any clue what to expect...

[Thor Henning]

Originally Posted by TeeZet

I'm sorry to see you were disappointed, Thor. But it's a Hollywood movie, and not a documentary. Not even a docu-drama. You see events on a screen through the director's eyes.
I thought it was entertaining. But then I had hardly any clue what to expect...

You are right TeeZet. I did expect to much. But it could have been a really great movie. And it wasn't...

[Ginger]

I wonder if the point at the end of the movie was an attempt to lessen the historic burden on the Spanish and Christians and the things they did while 'conquering' (or Christian-izing) the Mayan people. Like to make it a kind of "no wonder the Spanish Christians thought the Mayans were satanic and needed cleansing".

Just throwing the theory out there.

[playafava]

I was watching the movie in the hotel room before my flight to Playa in March.. fell asleep fairly early on.

[playafava]

Originally Posted by Ginger

I wonder if the point at the end of the movie was an attempt to lessen the historic burden on the Spanish and Christians and the things they did while 'conquering' (or Christian-izing) the Mayan people. Like to make it a kind of "no wonder the Spanish Christians thought the Mayans were satanic and needed cleansing".

Just throwing the theory out there.

Yeah, but weren't the Spaniards and supposed Christians torturing and slaughtering humans in the Inquisitions at the same time... The Mayans had nothing on them....

[sctx]

Originally Posted by Thor Henning

Yes, i did a search and there are in fact 4 threads about Apocalypto. The reason I was disappointed was I thought this would be a movie that told us one of the possibilities how the Mayan cities was abandoned. But this was just nonsense and clichés. I think the Mayans were "raped" in this movie. Used for a purpose and left behind.

that was pretty much my take on the flick as well. I guess the implication was that urbanization destroyed the surrounding environment and the population couldn't be supported without further and expanded plundering........ I liked "300" better, at least there was a full hour of bloody violence and cool special effects

[Just Lucky]

Originally Posted by Rissask

And what do you think about this? Even the Mayans themselves reacted positively to the movie when they saw it.






So who are we, as white outsiders, to be all affronted and disgusted by it on their behalf?
It's their history after all, not ours.

While I realize that it was only a Hollywood movie, I question your interpretation here that because the movie did well upon opening in Mexico that this in some way constitutes an endorsement from modern day Maya for the film. The vast majority of ticket buyers in Mexico are not Mayan.

There were organized Mayan groups who opposed the films depiction of their ancient culture. I suspect the majority of modern day Maya have little access to a cinema. Even if they did, not many could afford to go.
The Mayan population that still survives lives in several countries including ,but not limited to, Mexico.

As the original story in this thread makes clear genocidal violence against the Maya, based upon stereotypes reinforced by the movie, are not unfortunately ancient history.

[Rissask]

Originally Posted by Thor Henning

Yes, i did a search and there are in fact 4 threads about Apocalypto. The reason I was disappointed was I thought this would be a movie that told us one of the possibilities how the Mayan cities was abandoned. But this was just nonsense and clichés. I think the Mayans were "raped" in this movie. Used for a purpose and left behind.

I do agree it would be interesting to see a documentary on the Mayan collapse; as a Hollywood blockbuster unfortunately it would be a flop. Also, since some of the reasons why the civilization fell so dramatically is still unknown for certain, it wouldn't be super accurate anyway, you know?

They DID show hints of what was to come....they were razing all the trees to make that white clay and building and for fuel, for one.

[Rissask]

Originally Posted by Just Lucky

While I realize that it was only a Hollywood movie, I question your interpretation here that because the movie did well upon opening in Mexico that this in some way constitutes an endorsement from modern day Maya for the film. The vast majority of ticket buyers in Mexico are not Mayan.

There were organized Mayan groups who opposed the films depiction of their ancient culture. I suspect the majority of modern day Maya have little access to a cinema. Even if they did, not many could afford to go.
The Mayan population that still survives lives in several countries including ,but not limited to, Mexico.

As the original story in this thread makes clear genocidal violence against the Maya, based upon stereotypes reinforced by the movie, are not unfortunately ancient history.

Is it just a stereotype or did they do human sacrifice? I am not sure we really know to what extent they did it, but there is evidence they were pretty brutal within themselves.
Like ALL cultures have in their past, and most still do.

That DID just say Mexicans, I guess I was interpreting it as Mayans, you are right.

It would be interesting to know what the majority of Mayans who saw it felt about the movie (apart from the complaining groups, like Trip Advisor reports, you always have complainers in any group).

Many of the actors were Mayan, how they did feel too about the finished product I wonder.
I guess I just bristle at the idea of us getting insulted on their behalf.

And the overly dramatic tone of that journalist and others like her.

I mean...it was a MOVIE....no one can seriously expect Hollywood movies to be historically accurate.

[abachechi]

Originally Posted by Rissask

I do agree it would be interesting to see a documentary on the Mayan collapse; as a Hollywood blockbuster unfortunately it would be a flop. Also, since some of the reasons why the civilization fell so dramatically is still unknown for certain, it wouldn't be super accurate anyway, you know?

They DID show hints of what was to come....they were razing all the trees to make that white clay and building and for fuel, for one.

I agree, it would be very hard to have an accurate documentary even on what happened.

Wasn't a big fan of the movie. I know the mayans were brutal but I thought the movie was too brutal, IMO.

I did catch a bit of a documentary a day or two ago on finding different ruin sites in Guatamala and Mexico. The documentary I watched was talking about us just beginning to use remote sensing to find ruin sites. We don't even know where all the ruins are! Although they did contribute to their own demise, it's going to be while before we know what exactly happened to the Mayans.... if ever.