USA Presidential Politics - 2008

[ryberg]

This recent turn of the discussion here is almost enough to pull me away from the Nathan's Famous Coney Island Hot Dog Eating Contest they're currently showing on ESPN.

In high definition.

Almost.

(And thanks for reporting me, Scott!)

Steve

[Babaloo]

okay...i haven't followed along with this thread too much cuz my head may explode, but it's apparent that most of us here are ardent Obama supporters.
Unwaivering? Well, this may have been discussed, but do you not have issues with his moving so quickly to the center?

• His leaving his options open for troop withdrawl (Huh? Wasn't that his primary platform?)
• He's for the death penalty
• He's against strict gun control
• He supports more funding for faith based initiatives

Is this the same candidate of a year ago. Of six or even three months ago?
I dunno...I'm not liking it too much.

[roni]

Originally Posted by Babaloo

okay...i haven't followed along with this thread too much cuz my head may explode, but it's apparent that most of us here are ardent Obama supporters.
Unwaivering? Well, this may have been discussed, but do you not have issues with his moving so quickly to the center?

• His leaving his options open for troop withdrawl (Huh? Wasn't that his primary platform?)
• He's for the death penalty
• He's against strict gun control
• He's supports more funding for faith based initiatives

Is this the same candidate of a year ago. Of six or even three months ago?
I dunno...I'm not liking it too much.

Interesting you should post this on this morning

CNN article on recent poll says Obama's rating amongst Dems has gone down, fewer Clinton supporters going to McCain, but more sitting out the election. In the meantime, the rating of Clinton among Democrats has gone up.

I am an Obama supporter. I am an Obama donor. I will vote for Obama, but I do not, at this time, feel any strong, enthusiastic emotion about him. I do not need to in order to support him, donate to him and vote for him - but it is more to feel that kind of enthusiasm.

We'll see who he selects for his VP candidate. My personal opinion is that the Democrats have the best chance of sweeping Congress and the White House if it is Clinton, for no other reason that her disenchanted supporters could vote for her and, in the same vote support Obama.

Otherwise, his chances of victory are significantly lower, in my estimation.

[ryberg]

My impression is that a lot of people were happy to read into him what they wanted to see.

I also appreciate the recent comments, as the gun control issue, for example, was going to go nowhere as a campaign topic, his Iraq comments show him to be reasonable and steal otherwise desirable GOP thunder, many havepointed out the need for a more obviously centrist position, anyway (which was always implicit in his emphasis on bipartisanship -- no one really believes that about him being the most liberal senator, right?)...

Btw, reports are that they're moving the final speech from the Pepsi Center to Invesco (Mile High), thereby quadrupling the maximum attendance.

Steve

[tmc]

Originally Posted by Babaloo

okay...i haven't followed along with this thread too much cuz my head may explode, but it's apparent that most of us here are ardent Obama supporters.
Unwaivering? Well, this may have been discussed, but do you not have issues with his moving so quickly to the center?

• His leaving his options open for troop withdrawl (Huh? Wasn't that his primary platform?)
• He's for the death penalty
• He's against strict gun control
• He supports more funding for faith based initiatives

Is this the same candidate of a year ago. Of six or even three months ago?
I dunno...I'm not liking it too much.

Do you think that Obama is in danger of losing the mantle of "a different kind of politician" with his recent recalibration of positions on Iraq and NAFTA, among others? How do you suppose this will play in the general election if he is viewed as just another politician willing to say whatever it takes to win? Do you think any of the Clinton supporters are feeling just a little upset at this time as a function of these policy shifts?

[ryberg]

Do you think he doesn't love his country enough because he doesn't always wear a flag pin on his lapel?



Do you think the right is pretty much out of ideas as to how to scratch and claw their way into holding onto the White House, much less what to offer up as an alternative to our disastrous economic and foreign policy of the last 7-8 years? Do you think they know how to do much of anything except hack at challengers obviously seen as offering something newer and more appealing?

There is their choice, after all: an aging career politician who has drastically flip-flopped on everything from tax cuts for the wealthy to our approach in Iraq to his very own legislation on immigration, all for political gain...

Steve

[MikeW]

Originally Posted by Babaloo

okay...i haven't followed along with this thread too much cuz my head may explode, but it's apparent that most of us here are ardent Obama supporters.
Unwaivering? Well, this may have been discussed, but do you not have issues with his moving so quickly to the center?

• His leaving his options open for troop withdrawl (Huh? Wasn't that his primary platform?)
• He's for the death penalty
• He's against strict gun control
• He supports more funding for faith based initiatives

Is this the same candidate of a year ago. Of six or even three months ago?
I dunno...I'm not liking it too much.

The one that surprises me is #1. I thought he would wait until after he is elected to state the obvious. Unless his polls are showing that most people think it would be stupid to bail out of Iraq without a plan; in which case he's a politician and will change his stance in order to get elected.

#2,3,4 - Doubt if he has changed his mind on these things.

[sctx]

Originally Posted by Babaloo

okay...i haven't followed along with this thread too much cuz my head may explode, but it's apparent that most of us here are ardent Obama supporters.
Unwaivering? Well, this may have been discussed, but do you not have issues with his moving so quickly to the center?

• His leaving his options open for troop withdrawl (Huh? Wasn't that his primary platform?)
• He's for the death penalty
• He's against strict gun control
• He supports more funding for faith based initiatives

Is this the same candidate of a year ago. Of six or even three months ago?
I dunno...I'm not liking it too much.

it's part of the "Candidate of change" marketing strategy

[ryberg]

Originally Posted by sctx

it's part of the "Candidate of change" marketing strategy

McCain is THAT far ahead of the times?

Steve

[sctx]

Originally Posted by ryberg

McCain is THAT far ahead of the times?

Steve

saw a t-shirt earlier this week

"McCain 1908"

[ryberg]

Originally Posted by sctx

saw a t-shirt earlier this week

"McCain 1908"

That might be rather funny if it weren't an outrageous example of ageism.

But to get back to the point, sure, some people find some of these views disturbing, from Babs re troop withdrawal to McCain re public funding yo MoveOn re not filibustering on FISA. And Clinton supporters I don't think need to go looking for reasons to be upset, given all the ones they've already cited. But aren't a lot of people taking a lot of these things sort of in stride? Am I missing the widespread outcry here, or...? Did people really expect a guy conservatives try to label as way too liberal NOT to frame his views in more palatably centrist terms for the general election?

Not saying everyone should be delighted, just viewing it from that perspective...

Steve

[Babaloo]

Originally Posted by ryberg

But aren't a lot of people taking a lot of these things sort of in stride? Am I missing the widespread outcry here, or...?

Steve

No...just a subtle outcry that I don't want to see grow.

[ryberg]

Originally Posted by Babaloo

No...just a subtle outcry that I don't want to see grow.

Well, fair enough.

Steve

[tmc]

Originally Posted by ryberg

Do you think he doesn't love his country enough because he doesn't always wear a flag pin on his lapel?



Do you think the right is pretty much out of ideas as to how to scratch and claw their way into holding onto the White House, much less what to offer up as an alternative to our disastrous economic and foreign policy of the last 7-8 years? Do you think they know how to do much of anything except hack at challengers obviously seen as offering something newer and more appealing?

There is their choice, after all: an aging career politician who has drastically flip-flopped on everything from tax cuts for the wealthy to our approach in Iraq to his very own legislation on immigration, all for political gain...

Steve

On the first point, I think that wearing or not wearing a flag pin on your lapel is not indicative of anything, if you choose to wear it or not wear it out of conviction. If you choose not to wear it for a good reason, then change your mind for political expediency to wear it, that would concern me, but wouldn't cause to to question someone's patriotism, just their judgment.

As to the "right" offering any particular set of ideas, you are mistaken if you include McCain in that group. As he is not particularly conservative, and only marginally more so then current White House inhabitant, the major ideas of the right have not been voiced for a while. Craven Republican politicians, with few exceptions (tax cuts, for example), have failed to put in action those ideas that could have made a difference. As to the new politician offering something different, I think that the original point by Babaloo shows some people are concerned that the new boss is same as the old boss.

I don't see the utility in calling out McCain for his age (isn't that contrary to good liberal protocol?) but he is one of those craven politicians I was thinking about. I agree he is a terrible choice for president, it now bears watching whether Obama will be the same.

[STOGEY]

Originally Posted by MikeW

The one that surprises me is #1. I thought he would wait until after he is elected to state the obvious. Unless his polls are showing that most people think it would be stupid to bail out of Iraq without a plan; in which case he's a politician and will change his stance in order to get elected.

#2,3,4 - Doubt if he has changed his mind on these things.

As far as his gun control posture. The day after the Supreme Court decision on gun control Obama said that he supported the Supreme Courts decision. Had he had it his way though none of the Justices that went with the majority opinion would have been there.
Plus just before he started to run for President manay of his alliances were with anti gun rights organizations.