USA Presidential Politics - 2008

[ryberg]

Originally Posted by sctx

no it's not, you've already decided on who you're voting for, I haven't...... I'm looking for leadership, not shallow words to sway my vote..... if his actions support his words, he gets a brownie point.... that's why I asked the question..... so is it "yes" or "no" ???

So, Obama has been a smoker, for example, and may well still light up from time to time. He is thus disqualified from adopting any view that might, for example, acknowledge in policies the greater burden in terms of costs that smokers put on the health care system, or the raising of any cigarette taxes, or the like?

McCain's wife is amazingly rich, right? And of course she shares that money with him. So I guess he's now disqualified from taking any position on how to help raise the socio-economic level of the poor in this country.

Or if he does, he's just displaying the same old politician BS, not real leadership.



Steve

[sctx]

Originally Posted by ryberg

Steve

I agree

[Playa del Soul]

Someone who passes on public campaign financing should not lecture on the evils of money in campaigns. I know that. Just as someone who doesn't pay taxes (or pays a pittance) shouldn't lecture to those who do pay that they don't pay enough. Someone who uses 10 times more electricity in their house (or the equal amount just running their swimming pool) shouldn't lecture others on conserving energy.

[melliedee]

Originally Posted by Welshly Squirt

Someone who passes on public campaign financing should not lecture on the evils of money in campaigns. I know that. Just as someone who doesn't pay taxes (or pays a pittance) shouldn't lecture to those who do pay that they don't pay enough. Someone who uses 10 times more electricity in their house (or the equal amount just running their swimming pool) shouldn't lecture others on conserving energy.

Someone who's coming to Playa in 11 days is going to convince you to vote for Obama.

[diogeron]

Having read Obama's first book, "Dreams from my Father", written in 1995, after he had been elected to head the Harvard Law Review, but before he entered politics, it's clear that he was thinking even then of the advantages of Americans learning other languages and cultures. This is hardly revelatory or anything that people since the Founding Fathers hadn't recognized.

I have no idea whether or not Obama's kids are studying another language, (my guess is, yes, knowing their socio-economic class) but if they are like my now adult kids, both are or will do so because that's something that helps our kids compete in the 21st century and that young adults and parents increasingly understand. If that is controversial to anyone, I have to admit I just don't get it, any more than saying we need more engineers and math teachers is controversial.

Originally Posted by sctx

he has a right to talk about anything he wants... if he's not teaching his children Spanish then he is trodding even further down the road of traditional politics.... say whatever you can to gain a vote...... I've lost sight of the "change" in politics he supposedly represents

[ryberg]

I just realized that no comments on the importance or value of learning another language from anyone who is monolingual are to be accepted.

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There goes a good-sized chunk of the blogosphere!

Steve

[ryberg]

Originally Posted by diogeron

Having read Obama's first book, "Dreams from my Father", written in 1995, after he had been elected to head the Harvard Law Review, but before he entered politics, it's clear that he was thinking even then of the advantages of Americans learning other languages and cultures. This is hardly revelatory or anything that people since the Founding Fathers hadn't recognized.

I have no idea whether or not Obama's kids are studying another language, (my guess is, yes, knowing their socio-economic class) but if they are like my now adult kids, both are or will do so because that's something that helps our kids compete in the 21st century and that young adults and parents increasingly understand. If that is controversial to anyone, I have to admit I just don't get it, any more than saying we need more engineers and math teachers is controversial.

Yeah, that's all great and all that... but we're talking foreign languages, here!!! Don't you get it?!?

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Are you really American?


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Steve

[diogeron]

What did Obama joke about McCain saying? I'm not sure what you mean? Can you be specific about what Obama said about what McCain said? I must have missed it.
Thanks,

Originally Posted by horizon200

No I found it belittling.

I will continue to beat this drum...why do candidates have to find each and every little sound bite to attack the other candidate with? Why not just run on the laurels of their ideas? Both sides do it and it makes me sick! Are their campaigns so weak that they have to discount the other candidate? Are we so stupid that we need them to tell us what was just said? It's offensive! I'm fed up with the lot of them!

I found it embarrasing when people tried to attack Obama for his multilingual comments. I find it embarrasing when Obama makes jokes about something McCain didn't say. It's not funny...it's disingenuous crap!

If you want my vote, tell me how your plan is going to help the country, not how the other candidates plan is not. Tell me how your plan is going to be funded, not how the other candidates plan won't be.

[ryberg]

Mel, if you still are looking for signs as to whether fear is driving the votes of a significant number of people opposing Obama, just fire up about any page Google shows you regarding his comments re learning Spanish.

I've always found it odd that xenophobia -- of course a first cousin to racism -- is so sort of... acceptable when it involves languages.

Steve

[diogeron]

Por supuesto. Lo siento mucho.

Originally Posted by ryberg

Yeah, that's all great and all that... but we're talking foreign languages, here!!! Don't you get it?!?

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Are you really American?


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Steve

[melliedee]

Originally Posted by ryberg

Mel, if you still are looking for signs as to whether fear is driving the votes of a significant number of people opposing Obama, just fire up about any page Google shows you regarding his comments re learning Spanish.

I've always found it odd that xenophobia -- of course a first cousin to racism -- is so sort of... acceptable when it involves languages.

Steve

I wish I hadn't googled it. WTF?

Okay, this is from a source called "Right Wing News," but check out the title:

Video Of The Day: Learn Spanish And Stop Embarrassing Me In Front Of Europe

Obama starts off this clip by opposing English as an official language, seems to emphasize that teaching kids Spanish is more important than teaching them English, and then says Americans are an embarrassment because they only know one language when they go to Europe. It may be the one of the most grotesquely arrogant, out of touch displays that I have seen from someone running for President in the last decade.

Video Of The Day: Learn Spanish And Stop Embarrassing Me In Front Of Europe - Right Wing News (Conservative News and Views)

[diogeron]

see below...double post....my bad
Video Of The Day: Learn Spanish And Stop Embarrassing Me In Front Of Europe - Right Wing News (Conservative News and Views)[/quote]

[diogeron]

Did you actually listen to the clip or just cut and paste? Nowhere does Obama say anything about opposing English as an official language. If you can find it, quote it here and post it here. We'll all await the post where Obama says what you said he said or, better yet, people can listen themselves and make up their own minds. Of course, to paraphrase Groucho Marx, "who you gonna believe, me or your lying ears."
As the late Senator Pat Monyihan used to say, "You are entitled to your own opinions but you are not entitled to your own facts." Any fair minded person who listens to what Obama actually says rather than buy the "spin" from the Right Wing web site either doesn't understand English themselves all that well or doesn't really care about what he said. I suspect the latter is in play, the same way all those people who just pass along viral e-mails without reading or vetting them do.

Originally Posted by melliedee

I wish I hadn't googled it. WTF? D
Okay, this is from a source called "Right Wing News," but check out the title:



Video Of The Day: Learn Spanish And Stop Embarrassing Me In Front Of Europe - Right Wing News (Conservative News and Views)

[Los Sigmanes]

Accusations of being 'Out of touch' or a 'Flip-flopper' are well-worn by both parties. If you want to see the importance of knowing Spanish, come to Houston. It matters not what the 'official' language is when you need to be understood. Some find this fact disturbing, believing that all Americans must speak English. The fact remains that the population in this city is becoming more Hispanic, and not only because of immigration, but the simple difference in birth rate also.

[ryberg]

Originally Posted by melliedee

I wish I hadn't googled it. WTF? :confused

Yep. Told ya!

One I saw ran something like this:

Obama says my kids should learn Spanish. Well stay away from my kids, Obama!

Now think about that a moment. What is it that this concerned parent thinks will happen to his/her kids if they learn Spanish?

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[Jeopardy jingle plays...]

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Give up? Well me, too! Let's see, will their minds go to rot? Maybe they will forget English, their native language! Will they still really be Americans -- I mean REALLY -- if it comes to the worst case scenario and they actually learn to speak a language other than English? What if they join Mexican terrorist group and work to undermine our government? Will they perhaps become slovenly or somehow else fit some or another stereotype of Spanish speakers deemed to be undesirable? Perhaps they will drop out of school, or maybe turn Catholic? The Pope may already be controlling their minds!

Of course, each parent can parent the way the see as the most fit. But it is a valid question: what is the fear of learning a foreign language that would make a parent, as in this case, angrily declare "Stay away from my children!", or that would in general drive so much of the other reactions out there on this topic?

Steve