USA Presidential Politics - 2008

[diogeron]

See my most recent post. Ignorance or willful dissembling? Inquiring minds want to know.

Wonder if the "link to nowhere" is a link to GOP Senator Ted Stevens' famed "bridge to nowhere?"

Originally Posted by ryberg

Or like that.

I'm inclned to think that the worst type is the intentional type from conspiracy theorists that goes masquerading as legitimate research from impartial sources.

The link doesn't work, by the way.

Steve

[Just Lucky]

Originally Posted by horizon200

Its OK Lucky...I'm now known as the ignorant one lacking information I think I'll change my screen name too!

I just wish I had one of those neat lists of reasons why I'm going to vote Democrat!

If you post your Email address I'll be sure you get one! Really, it's the very least I can do. And I'm sure you recognize how us lefties like to do the very least. Please be sure any and all spam filters and firewalls are turned off.
Modern science has come up with some remarkable medicines for men of our age to make us feel like we are 16 again. Sorta randy if you know what I mean. Be sure to look that over, along with any offers I may forward to you from friends doing missionary work in Nigeria. Sometimes they can make offers of very unusual financial transactions which sound almost too good to be true.

[ryberg]

To clarify, my beef is not really with TMC or H200 or Mr C or any particular person whose posts I may have responded to with my complaints here this morning or at other times, on similar points.

Rather, my beef is with the overwhelming trend to forgo any even basically truthful or accurate or analytical approach to our situation in favor of wholly unsupported claims, negative innuendo, rejection as invalid of any research that doesn't fit one's political motivations (even if the same entity previously produced research that one lauded because it did), parading of reports from obviously politically biased groups as if they were just as legitimate as those of entities widely regarded as fair and whose authors publish criticisms of both sides of the political spectrum, the suggestion that because of a potential flaw here or there, an entire body of carefully investigated and presented research must be a gigantic hoax perpetrated for political motivations as part of a conspiracy on a grander scale than the world may have ever seen, claims that specific political proposals don't exist when they've been laid out repeatedly and discussed in easily accessible places, or that someone voted X way and must be the devil incarnate as a result, without the full context being provided, or that someone is loved by a reviled communist leader when in actual fact he's reviled by that same communist leader, as the written record shows, or that someone is secretly a member of a dangerous religion, or the ever popular drive to misdirect people with focus on such ridiculous points as whether someone wears a flag pin or used precisely the right wording in a particular comment, also (it should go without saying) removed from its proper context, all while the economy has gone in the toilet and Americans continue to lose their homes to predatory loan thieves and thousands other Americans are dead from fighting in a quagmire of a war in Iraq that was also entered into upon such lies and people continue to go without health care in one of the richest, otherwise most advanced countries in the world.

Call me crazy, but I find that a tad bit frustrating. And so I have very little patience with anything that appears to be in keeping with such an approach.

Steve

[Just Lucky]

Originally Posted by ryberg

To clarify, my beef is not really with TMC or H200 or Mr C or any particular person whose posts I may have responded to with my complaints here this morning or at other times, on similar points.

Rather, my beef is with the overwhelming trend to forgo any even basically truthful or accurate or analytical approach to our situation in favor of wholly unsupported claims, negative innuendo, rejection as invalid of any research that doesn't fit one's political motivations (even if the same entity previously produced research that one lauded because it did), parading of reports from obviously politically biased groups as if they were just as legitimate as those of entities widely regarded as fair and whose authors publish criticisms of both sides of the political spectrum, the suggestion that because of a potential flaw here or there, an entire body of carefully investigated and presented research must be a gigantic hoax perpetrated for political motivations as part of a conspiracy on a grander scale than the world may have ever seen, claims that specific political proposals don't exist when they've been laid out repeatedly and discussed in easily accessible places, or that someone voted X way and must be the devil incarnate as a result, without the full context being provided, or that someone is loved by a reviled communist leader when in actual fact he's reviled by that same communist leader, as the written record shows, or that someone is secretly a member of a dangerous religion, or the ever popular drive to misdirect people with focus on such ridiculous points as whether someone wears a flag pin or used precisely the right wording in a particular comment, also (it should go without saying) removed from its proper context, all while the economy has gone in the toilet and Americans continue to lose their homes to predatory loan thieves and thousands other Americans are dead from fighting in a quagmire of a war in Iraq that was also entered into upon such lies and people continue to go without health care in one of the richest, otherwise most advanced countries in the world.

Call me crazy, but I find that a tad bit frustrating. And so I have very little patience with anything that appears to be in keeping with such an approach.

Steve

I understand. I frequently share your frustrations.

Sometimes I find popping 5 or 6 hydrocodones and drinking a quart or so of Bombay(TM) gin alters my perception and perspective. I'm not sure it'll work for anyone else but hey, it's worth a try ain't it?

[horizon200]

Originally Posted by Just Lucky

If you post your Email address I'll be sure you get one! Really, it's the very least I can do. Please be sure any and all spam filters and firewalls are turned off. And I'm sure you recognize how us lefties like to do the very least. I'm sure you realize how those of us on the left enjoy doing the very least possible.
Modern science has come up with some remarkable medicines for men of our age to make us feel like we are 16 again. Sorta randy if you know what I mean. Be sure to look that over, along with any offers I may forward to you from friends doing missionary work in Nigeria. Sometimes they can make offers of very unusual financial transactions which sound almost too good to be true.

Ahh yes my friend, but my feeble mind would not be able to handle such intricacies of internet security manipulation...further, I fear my Rightie money hungry soul would be too weakminded to resist the Nigerian financial windfall offers...nor would I be able to resist the offers of certain snakeoils that will make me feel like a youth again and I may end up with heartfailure trying to live a life I no longer have!


Steve, I know what you mean...I too get frustrated when people post such dribble. But I dare say it happens on both sides of the isle. It seems some are more blind to it unless it offends their side of said isle though.

[melliedee]

Originally Posted by horizon200

Ahh yes my friend, but my feeble mind would not be able to handle such intricacies of internet security manipulation...further, I fear my Rightie money hungry soul would be too weakminded to resist the Nigerian financial windfall offers...nor would I be able to resist the offers of certain snakeoils that will make me feel like a youth again and I may end up with heartfailure trying to live a life I no longer have!


Steve, I know what you mean...I too get frustrated when people post such dribble. But I dare say it happens on both sides of the isle. It seems some are more blind to it unless it offends their side of said isle though.

True dat, H2. Just today beerbreath's "joke" which was far more damning than your little redistribution crack, seemed to go unnoticed. I didn't think it was funny, especially this:

I’m voting Republican since Republicans did such a good job listening to their National Security Advisors, and managed to foil an attack that was planned for September 2001.

Hilarious, right? Sorry if you feel under attack. I enjoy your contributions. TMC too.

[tmc]

Originally Posted by ryberg

So that removes your bias? Hmmm...

No, it just tells you that I don’t feel the need to join the pack. I also don’t post any positives about McCain, am I biased against him as well?

So why not, if they're so prevalent? That was pretty much your call to Stewart on producing research re Obama, right? You concluded that if he wasn't presenting it, it must not actually be there. So shall we conclude by your own logic that if you're not pro-actively trashing Obama with all these reports you talk about, they must not really be there?

I don’t understand that logic; if I fail to post negative data about Obama on this website, than no such data exists? What happens if I forget to say my prayers at night, do all the little deceased babies go straight from purgatory to hell? Are you encouraging me to post negative information about Obama on a regular basis; that’s not my style, I prefer to address the validity of statements made here by others, is that ok with you?

Once, as I recall to one of my posts, with the remark that you had no time or desire to read it. I'm not sure how well that qualifies as a response, there.

Not sure what you mean here, I meant to say I respond to other posters, not necessarily every source they reference.

I've presented you a mountain of them, said by McCain, but I don't see much from you that does anything but deny their existence or validity, or if nothing else, suggests that much milder stuff from Obama is the same or that none of it matters, they're only ads and speeches, you know.

I saw your mountain of data and responded to the ones that were marginal, do I have to say “Amen” to the ones I agree to before I address the ones I don’t? I don’t usually post reaffirming lines to something I agree with, nor do feel the need to take exception to everything I don’t.

A very good question, very much what I'm asking here of you.

As I say, I just find the approach disingenuous and for being so, disrespectful. But you know, in the end, you're going to have to do some work and connect the dots yourself.

Steve

I don’t know why you consider my approach disingenuous and disrespectful; do I have to be an avowed Democrat or Republican to respond to you, do I have to state my preference for president (even if I have none now) to have the credibility you seem to think I lack? Why does my feeling on the matter impact the substance of the argument; either my points are valid or not, independent of which person I feel I will vote for in November.

Why do some people feel the need to attack an individual instead of the argument, I’ve not done that to you. It usually is a sign of failing to mount a credible argument, is it not?

To make you feel better, I will post something about Obama from the Bush loving Washington Post regarding the media coverage about Obama and McCain, it's called Obama's Edge in the Coverage Race:

washingtonpost.com - nation, world, technology and Washington area news and headlines

[roni]

Hi everyone

Maybe the revival of the Ayers story will take the thread up to 1100 pages by midnight

I kind of agree with Gergen - Obama could use a game changer in terms of the VP nomination.

On the other hand - I also kind of feel that if Obama believes that Hillary supporters are bluffing, he should probably call the bluff.

I know this for sure - The Obama campaign has good, recent poll data on how various VP possibilities play out in various states. They have good focus group research in the same area. I do not think those results will determine the choice in and of themselves, but you can safely bet that those data will have a pretty good level of influence in the decision.

[roni]

Clinton, in a recent poll just reported on CNN, leads McCain by double Obama's lead - 6 points up to 3 points up.

[melliedee]

Where's the VP announcement already???

[roni]

Poll Zeroes In On Weak Spots For McCain, Obama : NPR

An NPR poll of likely voters in 19 battleground states finds about half consider Illinois Sen. Barack Obama too risky. Those polled rank Arizona Sen. John McCain slightly behind Obama in terms of independence.

The poll results reveal voter doubts about both candidates' presidential qualities that may explain why neither seems to be able to break through a kind of ceiling this summer. In the national head-to-head matchups, Obama can't seem to break 50 percent, and McCain is stuck somewhere in the low to mid-40s.

The poll, conducted Aug. 12-14 by a bipartisan team of pollsters, surveyed voters in 19 states where the polling shows the race is very close or where the candidates have decided to make major investments of time and money, says Democratic pollster Stan Greenberg.

Worth reading closely

[Sol]

Originally Posted by melliedee

Where's the VP announcement already???

UGH! thought there would be some news by now.

[roni]

How many homes did FDR own?
How many homes did JFK own?
How many homes did RMN own?

[melliedee]

Has anyone heard of these documentaries about voter fraud that Clinton supporters intend to bring to the convention? Just saw an interview on Hardball and saw a clip of the actual film on another forum...

[roni]

Originally Posted by melliedee

Has anyone heard of these documentaries about voter fraud that Clinton supporters intend to bring to the convention? Just saw an interview on Hardball and saw a clip of the actual film on another forum...

I heard a snippet about it and ignored it.

I don't watch hardball.