USA Presidential Politics - 2008

[beerbreath]

There was a 3 hour wait for early voting where I live yesterday!

[roni]

SurveyUSA: OK, WY (10/18-19)

Oklahoma
McCain 59, Obama 35

Wyoming
McCain 58, Obama 37

Quinnipiac University

New Jersey
Obama 59, McCain 36

Chicago Tribune / Market Shares Corp
Illinois
Obama 56, McCain 32, Nader 2, Barr 0

Public Policy Polling (D)

Indiana
Obama 48, McCain 46

[melliedee]

Bernie Sanders was on Maher last night. Very interesting discussion about how "socialism" has become a dirty word associated with totalitarianism. I think about those young Republicans at the rally with their "Socialists for Obama" signs and I wonder if they even know what that means theoretically and historically.

[roni]

McCain is pulling out all the stops in Pa.

By Larry Eichel

Despite polls showing him trailing Democrat Barack Obama by double digits in Pennsylvania, John McCain continued to treat the state as if the whole election depended on it.

Yesterday, his wife, Cindy, made four stops in Philadelphia and Yardley, speaking at two rallies, visiting a hospital, and meeting the mothers of men and women in the military.

Today, the Republican nominee has three appearances in Pennsylvania, starting with a morning rally in Bensalem. He made two visits to the Philadelphia suburbs last week, and running mate Sarah Palin was in Lancaster over the weekend.

"It sure doesn't sound like a campaign that's pulling up stakes," said Chris Borick, a political scientist and pollster at Muhlenberg College in Allentown.

All the McCain activity is happening in a state where Democrats outnumber Republicans by nearly 1.2 million, double from four years ago; where Obama, flush with cash, is outspending McCain on television by several orders of magnitude; and where the Democrats have an organizational advantage.

Indeed, Obama - who announced last night that he will leave the campaign trail Thursday and Friday to visit his suddenly seriously ill grandmother in Hawaii - apparently feels comfortable enough about his position in Pennsylvania that he has no plans to return to the state before the middle of next week.

G. Terry Madonna, director of the Center for Politics and Public Affairs at Franklin and Marshall College in Lancaster, said of the McCain campaign: "I think they're still here because they can't get out. They can't pull out because it would be psychologically devastating to their campaign nationally."

The last five public polls have Obama ahead in the state by 12 to 15 points.

McCain's aides say they remain optimistic about their chances in Pennsylvania for the same reasons they focused on it in the first place.

Although the state went Democratic in the last four presidential elections, the margins of victory were modest. The state has a lot of older, socially conservative voters with whom Obama has struggled, and Obama ran poorly in the Democratic primary.

State party leaders also believe they have a chance to do well enough in parts of South and Northeast Philadelphia to hold down Obama's margin of victory in the city.

With the Democratic ticket leading in many of the states President Bush carried in 2004, McCain needs a blue-state breakthrough.

"We will win Pennsylvania, and those 21 electoral votes will be the margin that puts us over the top," campaign spokesman Peter Feldman said. "We wouldn't be here unless we were 100 percent confident of that."

McCain is pulling out all the stops in Pa. | Philadelphia Inquirer | 10/21/2008

[kirbyfan]

Originally Posted by ryberg

It's gotta be the kool-aid. I mean, nobody could seriously think this guy is a better option, right?

Steve

What does THAT mean?

[roni]

Originally Posted by melliedee

Bernie Sanders was on Maher last night. Very interesting discussion about how "socialism" has become a dirty word associated with totalitarianism. I think about those young Republicans at the rally with their "Socialists for Obama" signs and I wonder if they even know what that means theoretically and historically.

I do not know about them, but I am quite sure that Sarah Palin has an idiosyncratic definition of the word.

According to McCain-Palin, Eisenhower was a socialist, along with Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan and John Kennedy and any other politician who has supported a progressive income tax system like the one the USA has had for a long, long, long time.

[ryberg]

Originally Posted by melliedee

Bernie Sanders was on Maher last night. Very interesting discussion about how "socialism" has become a dirty word associated with totalitarianism. I think about those young Republicans at the rally with their "Socialists for Obama" signs and I wonder if they even know what that means theoretically and historically.

Actually at the recent celebrated instance caught on video and spread online, it was the young, some of them Republicans, educating a middle-aged troupe on such points outside a McCain rally. May have been in PA. Did you see that one?The young folk cheered and applauded when the anti-Obama types finally gave up and left. One notably asked, "Are you trying to lose us this election?"

Steve

[S + J]

....anyone catch this on Howard Stern?

Breitbart.tv ‘Howard Stern Show’ Quizzes Obama Supporters in Harlem on Candidate Policies

...so goes the educated vote ...WTF!!

[roni]

McCain is fighting Obama's momentum in Missouri

By Bob Drogin
October 21, 2008

McCain hopes to rebuild the coalition of rural conservatives, evangelicals and others who helped deliver the state twice to President Bush.

Reported from St. Charles, Mo. -- Two days after Barack Obama drew 100,000 supporters to a rally in St. Louis, John McCain attracted about 2,500 people to a field in this nearby suburb Monday, a visible symbol of the challenge the Republican nominee faces in this crucial state.

McCain barnstormed Missouri, hammering his opponent on taxes, healthcare and foreign policy in hopes of rebuilding the coalition of rural conservatives, evangelicals and others who helped deliver the state twice to President Bush.

The Arizona senator gave his standard campaign speech here in a key Republican stronghold and later flew to Columbia to have lunch with a dozen or so supporters. He ended with a sparsely attended, late-afternoon rally in Belton, outside Kansas City, one of the Republican-held suburbs where McCain needs a huge turnout.

Carol Wessel, GOP chairman in Lincoln County, insisted McCain would win the state despite losing his lead in polls. She dismissed the low turnout at his morning rally.

"It's Monday," she said. "Most people are working."

McCain is fighting Obama's momentum in Missouri - Los Angeles Times

[ryberg]

Originally Posted by kirbyfan

What does THAT mean?

All in the context of the previous posts, KF. Lookin' for that ever present alternative explanation with conspiracy overtones rather than going with the much more obvious and clear one, you know.

Hey, UND got a win or two this past weekend after a rough start, I see.

Steve

[blueton]

Originally Posted by ryberg

I find it all fascinating. When it comes to Obama, suddenly people skip by the ordinary and obvious answers, the ones that would indicate enthusiastic support for him, success in campaigning and inspiring people and that sort of thing. Instead some sort of alternate reason, often negative, must be found.

For example, you say there's no innuendo implied about Obama's contributions, StephenB, and then you make it stronger. It couldn't just be that Obama has inspired people on a scale previously not on display to donate to his campaign. Must be something suspect about it.

Or the Powell endorsement. Buchanan and Limbaugh say it's all about race, even though that makes no sense. As Powell pointed out (did they bother to check it for themselves?), he could have done it months ago, if that were the point. And maybe you didn't bother to check it out either, Blueton, as you ponder ulterior motives for the endorsement not being made earlier. It couldn't be the glaringly obvious idea, made explicit by Powell, that he wanted to take his time with such an important decision and see the debates and make sure he didn't also go against someone he's known for 25 years without good reason. Nope, must be something up with that!

It's amazing, really. McCain gets a walk on this stuff, but Obama gets grilled. It's sad to see how much it appears like what was said in that message Diogeron posted, though I would guess the driving factor here is not race but just a kind of denial, thinking that it's impossible for the new guy, the phenom, to have new energy and new ideas the country is so hungry for. Despite the abundant evidence to that effect.

This sort of myopia effect is what makes it too difficult for me to participate in these discussions anymore. Sorry.

Steve

I think you missed my point completely.
I said I was glad Obama was leading in my post.


My main complaint was that Powell was a key architect of building a case for the war against Iraq.


I have not forgot this role.
I am not anti-Obam in this - I am anti-Powell for his role in the war.
I am not prepared to forgive him so readily as others now seem to.


I do not believe for one moment Powell needed to wait for the presidential debates to understand the policies of someone he has known for 25 years either. That just doesn't make sense.


I am surprised that that all those who were against the war have nothing to say about this. I remember his role well; I did not want the war and he helped it happen.



So please don't try to turn it into a "everyone against Obama" comment because it quite simply misses the point completely which you would have understood if you had read my post carefully instead of trying to turn it into such.


As I said I want Obama to win -so I am not anti-Obama.


That doesn't mean have have to accept everything just because it is good for Obama's campaign.

I am not easy seeing Powell given a job by Obama.
I can not disassociate this from his complicity in the war.

[ryberg]

Here you go, Mel. Might restore your faith in young people a little bit, even if it's kind of a rough-hewn effort, in some ways.

Those comments are all well and good, Blueton, and I am aware that you are an Obama supporter. But I don't think that makes people immune to the phenomenon I was describing, in general, and more specifically, I was responding to all of this, basically the first half, at least, of your post, which I did read carefully. Here it is again:

Originally Posted by blueton

So why didn't he make the endorsement months ago?

I mean if he believes Obama is the man for the job and has the policies why didn't he back him earlier?

It is said that he was just as frustrated with the GOP/Neo Cons and their policies months ago - so why has it taken till now to back Obama?

Could it be that with little more than a couple of weeks to go he can see Obama has a commanding 10 point (ish) leave and is backing the winning horse?

Perhaps it is as much about self-interest; after all it looks like he is getting a job out of it...

To the extent that all of the above is in fact your view, and especially since Powell took some time to address the question of why it took him so long to decide, and in the general context of such an important decision made over the course of a very long campaign, I don't think my reaction is difficult to understand or obviously off-base or whatever. You don't think it makes sense to wait for the debates to decide who to vote for, for example?

Steve

[roni]

The map below is, I think, about as kind as it gets for McCain - and it is 286 Obama, 252 McCain

You can go to CNN.com/politics and do your own. I am going to do a landslide scenario also and post it later

[melliedee]

Originally Posted by ryberg

Actually at the recent celebrated instance caught on video and spread online, it was the young, some of them Republicans, educating a middle-aged troupe on such points outside a McCain rally. May have been in PA. Did you see that one?The young folk cheered and applauded when the anti-Obama types finally gave up and left. One notably asked, "Are you trying to lose us this election?"

Steve

Thanks for posting the video; I had not seen it. I think conservatives are rightfully defensive about being so broadly painted in that light.

I talked to one of the guys at the McCain headquarters after the rally and he said the thing which surprised him most about the phone calls he made as a volunteer was the amount of casual racism he encountered. He corrected the folks at every turn, and I think a lot of Republicans are truly dismayed by the ultra-right wing faction and trying to separate themselves. Palin, I fear, has given that faction a renewed ownership of the party.

[ryberg]

Originally Posted by melliedee

Thanks for posting the video; I had not seen it. I think conservatives are rightfully defensive about being so broadly painted in that light.

I talked to one of the guys at the McCain headquarters after the rally and he said the thing which surprised him most about the phone calls he made as a volunteer was the amount of casual racism he encountered. He corrected the folks at every turn, and I think a lot of Republicans are truly dismayed by the ultra-right wing faction and trying to separate themselves. Palin, I fear, has given that faction a renewed ownership of the party.

I agree on all counts.

Yes, I liked the guy from the campaign who says, "Well, I'm from the campaign, and we don't endorse this behavior."

Behavior.

The young guy you see briefly in the sweater, I think, commenting about the Muslim-Socialist connection on display, is also good.

Steve