USA Presidential Politics - 2008

[PlayadelSoul]

Originally Posted by ryberg

Well again at least from my perspective it's not that they are always offensive. Some of 'em (look at dem fat thighs -- lawdy!) are more than others (was that color a good choice?).

And the point is not that it never happens to men, either (the continual barrage on Edwards as a Breck girl, for example). I don't think anyone is saying that. (Check Maggie's comment, for example, or Bonnie's.)

I don't pretend to speak for (or even understand!) women, but from my perspective, I think, the point is twofold:

1. women in or running for public office seem to get these comments disproportionately moreso than men do, and the disproportionately offensive type, in the bargain, and
2. can't we focus on something of real substance a bit more, and get distracted less by stupid and irrelevant surface issues, just as we constantly complain that our leaders should do?

I don't think 1 can reasonably be denied, and thus shows that sexism is still alive and well in America. And 2 just displays our own responsibility for the very dumbing down of any political discussion in this country.

I commented that, even though I don't think she's the best the Dems can offer, I'd love to see Clinton take office as President to help break the grip of 1 a bit and to show my kids that America can be as open-minded and forward thinking as, say, the Phillipines, Sri Lanka, and Nicaragua, not to mention Finland, Germany, the UK, and so many others on that list I cited who have already had female leaders. But what would be even better would then be to read a summary of her performance that focused on such whacky things as, you know, political efforts rather than her hair style.

Unfortunately that seems much more a pipe dream than a woman taking office in the first place, and shame on us, if so.

Steve

Let's remember that this whole conversation started when Mr. Cancun posted a mildly funny KFC sign. It was political in nature, due to its reference to a left wing in the package. Seems to me that there was a huge overreaction to such a simple posting. Methinks some doth protest too much and see things that aren't really there.

Hillary is being treated just like any other frontrunner. Everything is subject to criticism. Stop the whining, already. You sound like a girl.

[ryberg]

Talk about losing one's sense of humor, it seems like all of you missed the real joke in that shot. Let me try to highlight it for you a bit... There we go!



Steve

[ryberg]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

Let's remember that this whole conversation started when Mr. Cancun posted a mildly funny KFC sign. It was political in nature, due to its reference to a left wing in the package. Seems to me that there was a huge overreaction to such a simple posting. Methinks some doth protest too much and see things that aren't really there.

Hillary is being treated just like any other frontrunner. Everything is subject to criticism. Stop the whining, already. You sound like a girl.

You stop the ridiculing of others concerned about respect and fair treatment. There has been a valid and proper reaction to tastelessness and sexism here from a number of people.

Steve

[PlayadelSoul]

Originally Posted by ryberg

Talk about losing one's sense of humor, it seems like all of you missed the real joke in that shot. Let me try to highlight it for you a bit... There we go!



Steve

Tell the brave men and women on that ship that they didn't really accomplish their mission. Go ahead, double dare you.

[PlayadelSoul]

Originally Posted by ryberg

You stop the ridiculing of others concerned about respect and fair treatment. There has been a valid and proper reaction to tastelessness and sexism here from a number of people.

Steve

People got bent out of shape over a joke. It wasn't sexist. The punchline being the "left wing". If you want to take political correctness to the absurd, that's your choice. Doesn't mean the rest of us have to play along. If it's truly offensive, remove it or asked for it to be removed.

[ryberg]

If you want to ridicule people who have legitimate and valid concerns about respect and fair treatment of others (or just a higher level of political dialogue) by failing to distinguish criticism from whining, you can do that, too, but we don't have to go along with it, either.

You seem to think that your response here is more valid, but it's not.

Steve

[ryberg]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

Tell the brave men and women on that ship that they didn't really accomplish their mission. Go ahead, double dare you.

No one has accomplished the mission being referred to in that sign, not even years later (as that shot is years old, right?). Do you think the mission has been accomplished?!?

Steve

[PlayadelSoul]

Originally Posted by ryberg

No one has accomplished the mission being referred to in that sign, not even years later (as that shot is years old, right?).

Steve

That sign was put up on a ship whose crew was going home, after they had served their part in the invasion of Iraq. To claim that it was anything else is pure BS. Those crew members did their duty and the President was there to thank them.

As for the KFC ad, if you truly think it is offensive, delete it. It's making a mountain of a molehill. If you also think that Hillary's people have nothing to do with what she wears and are not spinning it to their benefit, you really need a reality check.

[kirbyfan]

Originally Posted by ryberg

If you want to ridicule people who have legitimate and valid concerns about respect and fair treatment of others (or just a higher level of political dialogue) by failing to distinguish criticism from whining, you can do that, too, but we don't have to go along with it, either.

You seem to think that your response here is more valid, but it's not.

Steve

Your reaction to this is absurd Steve, lighten up a little.

[ryberg]

Originally Posted by kirbyfan

Your reaction to this is absurd Steve, lighten up a little.

Your reaction is absurd. Respect people.

I think I know the problem: you guys have been watching Fox so much that you think Colmes is a real person rather than Fox's puppet to fool the few people left who think they're fair and balanced. However in the real world, liberals don't cave in and shut up and fade away just because conservatives ridicule them and their views. Like Stewart told the Crossfire guys, I'm not going to be your monkey.

Your view is that it's absurd to treat women fairly or to expect that they be taken seriously or that we can actually have real dialogue on real points in this campaign without focusing on such ridiculous and irrelevant things. View duly recorded. Let's move on.

Steve

[kirbyfan]

Originally Posted by ryberg

Your reaction is absurd. Respect people.

I think I know the problem: you guys have been watching Fox so much that you think Colmes is a real person rather than Fox's puppet to fool the few people left who think they're fair and balanced. However in the real world, liberals don't cave in and shut up and fade away just because conservatives ridicule them and their views. Like Stewart told the Crossfire guys, I'm not going to be your monkey.

Your view is that it's absurd to treat women fairly or to expect that they be taken seriously or that we can actually have real dialogue on real points in this campaign without focusing on such ridiculous and irrelevant things. View duly recorded. Let's move on.

Steve

What in the hell are you talking about Steve? I never said any of those things and I dont share the nonsensical views you just stated nor am I brain washed by Fox. I swear you have a split personality sometimes. Dr. Steve and Mr. Ryberg....

[ryberg]

Originally Posted by kirbyfan

What in the hell are you talking about Steve? I never said any of those things and I dont share the nonsensical views you just stated nor am I brain washed by Fox. I swear you have a split personality sometimes. Dr. Steve and Mr. Ryberg....

Sorry but I assumed you'd read my reaction (reactions, actually) before you called them absurd. You may want to try doing that in the future before harshly criticizing people. Those are the things I talked about, and you said my reaction was absurd, so I was just summarizing your view of what was absurd.

Steve

[ryberg]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

That sign was put up on a ship whose crew was going home, after they had served their part in the invasion of Iraq. To claim that it was anything else is pure BS. Those crew members did their duty and the President was there to thank them.

As for the KFC ad, if you truly think it is offensive, delete it. It's making a mountain of a molehill. If you also think that Hillary's people have nothing to do with what she wears and are not spinning it to their benefit, you really need a reality check.

One reality check, just as you ordered:

On May 1, 2003 George W. Bush landed on the aircraft carrier USS Abraham Lincoln, in Navy One, a Lockheed S-3 Viking, wearing a flight suit. A few hours later he gave a speech announcing the end of major combat operations in the Iraq War. Clearly visible in the background was a banner stating "Mission Accomplished." [source/more]

April 30, 2004

Speaking one year ago, President Bush told the world, "In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed."

Fresh off an S-3B Viking aircraft that he co-piloted but did not land and donning a flight suit, Mr. Bush strutted triumphantly aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln. He stood at the podium and declared, "Major combat operations in Iraq have ended."

"It looked like a brilliant political move at the time," said Norman Orenstein, an elections expert at the American Enterprise Institute. "But clearly, there was a matter of irrational exuberance and I think they regret it now." [source/more]

Any questions?

Also, keep ignoring what I've written and trying to make it sound like I'm just annoyed at the joke KFC sign. Helps your argument sound a lot less whacked and me a lot more whacked.

Steve

[kirbyfan]

Originally Posted by ryberg

Sorry but I assumed you'd read my reaction (reactions, actually) before you called them absurd. You may want to try doing that in the future before harshly criticizing people. Those are the things I talked about, and you said my reaction was absurd, so I was just summarizing your view of what was absurd.

Steve

I guess what I was trying to tell you was, "its a friggen joke Steve, lighten up". Apparently its a terrible thing to make fun of ones cleavage but its certianly ok to make fun of ones intelligence, character, hairstyle, ect.... IMO you are completely overreacting but thats just my opinion. You want to continue this tirade go ahead, it makes me remember why i took a month off from this nonsense.

[PlayadelSoul]

Read the speech he made, in its entirety. The major combat he was referring to, was over. Saddam had left and Baghdad had fallen. Insurgency aside, he was thanking the seamen on that ship for their service. Their mission had been accomplished and they were on their way home.

So, you decided to use the KFC joke to rant about the unfair treatment of Clinton? Just who is it that is being unfair? Essentially, you want affirmative action in the political process. Any aspect of a candidates life is up for scrutiny. Hillary is a woman, so those aspects may differ from the scrutiny given a man. So what? No matter who becomes President, they all have to go through the same process. Don't claim you are for equal rights and then ask for special treatment.