USA Presidential Politics - 2008

[PlayadelSoul]

Originally Posted by melliedee

Don't let Chuck Norris hear you talking that smack.

Which "old guy" do you mean: McCain or Thompson? I agree, Obama and McCain would be a decent race.

McCain.

[horizon200]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

McCain.

Old Windmill himself!

[diogeron]

I got this from Obama's campaign today. I thought I'd post it to give some insight into their thinking at this point. I tried to edit out all the donation request graphics because I didn't think it would be appropriate for the thread.
I was also happy to see that I finally figured out how to post a photo of our condo terrace as my avatar.

Ron --
The latest Iowa poll, from the Des Moines Register, shows Barack Obama has pulled ahead of Hillary Clinton and is now leading there. We even lead among women by five points.
While that's all good news, there was even more telling news this weekend.
The poll also showed that -- by a wide margin -- Iowans have found that Senator Clinton is running the most negative campaign of any candidate.
And sure enough, less than 12 hours after the poll results were released, the Clinton campaign launched multiple frantic, baseless attacks against Barack Obama. The emerging pattern is disturbing: as Senator Clinton's poll numbers slide, the campaign of "inevitability" becomes more desperate and negative by the day.
It's exactly one month until the Iowa caucuses, and Senator Clinton has promised that this is just the beginning of her negativity. She even quipped yesterday that attacking other Democrats is "the fun part" of campaigning for the presidency.
Barack will always respond swiftly and forcefully with the truth when attacked, but we have to do more to stop this kind of politics once and for all.
These attacks take attention away from solving people's problems and exact a real cost on our political process.
[b]We need to respond by increasing the cost of these tactics for her campaign.

Here's a quick rundown of her campaign's attacks from yesterday alone:
- They falsely claimed that Barack Obama doesn't support universal health care, even though he's had a detailed plan since May that would provide affordable health insurance for every single American and do more to cut the cost of health care than any other plan in this race.
- They attacked our youth organizing efforts and tried to intimidate Iowa college students who plan to participate in the caucus (the latest Iowa poll shows Obama with a commanding lead among young people).
- They even published an article on their website attacking Barack for telling his kindergarten teacher he wanted to be president when he grew up. (I'm not kidding.)
Senator Clinton and her campaign may find it fun, but this kind of disingenuous attack politics is exactly what turns people off about our political process.

While Barack continues to talk about real problems like the war in Iraq, the tens of millions of uninsured, and the need for fundamental change in Washington, Senator Clinton's personal attacks come from the same, tired textbook of establishment politics.
These attacks are borne out of cynical political calculation, plain and simple.
But if 10,000 people respond to these attacks on Barack in the next 48 hours, we can change the math for them.
Thank you,
David
David Plouffe
Campaign Manager
Obama for America
P.S. -- If you're curious about why our campaign is continuing to build momentum in Iowa, check out this short film we put together for our supporters there:
https://donate.barackobama.com/iowasupportervideo

Paid for by Obama for America

Originally Posted by melliedee

Don't let Chuck Norris hear you talking that smack.

Which "old guy" do you mean: McCain or Thompson? I agree, Obama and McCain would be a decent race.

[MWC]

Ron, thank you for that. It's encouraging to see Obama "fighting back" this way; and I don't think Hillary Herself is being smart at all.

Edit your post to take your email address out, though. You might get a lot of spam, otherwise.

[diogeron]

Thanks for the suggestion regarding the e-mail address. I must have missed it. I'll edit it out post haste.

Originally Posted by MWC

Ron, thank you for that. It's encouraging to see Obama "fighting back" this way; and I don't think Hillary Herself is being smart at all.

Edit your post to take your email address out, though. You might get a lot of spam, otherwise.

[PlayadelSoul]

A helpful guide to the candidates' position on the war.

The Stumped Guide to the Candidates and the War

[Have a question for Stumped? Send it here. Questions may be edited.]
Dear Stumped,
Can you categorize the candidates' positions on Iraq?
-- Tom Rand
Dear Tom,
Sure. But remember, their categorizations and mine may differ.
Hillary Clinton: Let's not fret too much about how we got here, or whether Bill and I once supported this war. Let's all just focus on my talking points: If George Bush won't, I will end this war. Still, some troops will have to stay over there a long time.
Barack Obama: People, can we just fret for a minute? C'mon, let's fret about the past. I know I was just a state legislator at the time, but darn it, I did oppose this war. And she didn't! Still, some troops will have to stay over there a long time.
John Edwards: I have apologized for my vote to authorize the war. Back then, I was a different person -- a person who believed there was only one America. Now I know there are two Americas, and I belong in the one that opposes the war. There are more votes there. Still, some troops will have to stay over there a long time.
Joseph Biden: Forget about whether there are one or two Americas. What we need are three Iraqs. Split the place up along sectarian lines and call it a day. Have I mentioned that I have been talking to foreign leaders since before any of those front-runners were born? I mean, have I mentioned it recently? And yes, some troops will have to stay over there a long time.
Bill Richardson: Tell me again, why do some troops have to stay over there a long time?
Dennis Kucinich: How can I, the peace candidate who has opposed the war all along, still poll below the margin of error? Is it personal?
Mitt Romney: We have to win over there, though mistakes might have been made. That's where I stand, but you should have a hard time being sure because I can turn on a dime, and have a knack for making you think I agree with you.
John McCain: Of course mistakes were made! I have been saying that all along. We needed a massive surge from the get-go. If we leave Iraq, the bad guys are going to follow us all the way to Phoenix. There is no substitute for victory against the Islamofascists.
Rudolph Giuliani: I am grateful for the Islamofascists. Without them, I'd be doomed, forced to talk about abortion, guns, immigration, my family.... I am also grateful for Ron Paul, who graciously plays the role of gutless Democrat in our debates, allowing me to show my tough, indignant, let-me-finish-wiping-the-rubble-off-my-coat side.
Ron Paul: The only reason we are in Iraq is because of a conspiracy involving the Trilateral Commission, the Federal Reserve, the Council on Foreign Relations and, possibly, the NFL. And of course folks are waging jihad against us; we are occupying their lands. We'd go nuts too.
Mike Huckabee: Where is Iraq, exactly?
Fred Thompson: Didn't we already win this war? I remember a big parade in Washington. There were lots of flags and yummy hot dogs. Are we talking about Iran?
Tom Tancredo: For once, I agree with Senator McCain. We have to stay because if we don't fight the illegal aliens over there, we'll have to fight them here.

[diogeron]

For the record, my wife and I have been to the only fundraiser he has had in Indiana and have met him and are big fans. So, we sincerely hope Hillary is NOT the Democratic nominee. Now that's out of the way, let me say that I think all the criticism of Bill's statements is not totally fair. Let me offer this as evidence to counter the criticism that Bill Clinton was totally supportive of Bush's decision to go to war against Iraq when he took us to war against Iraq.
"Clinton Splits With Bush on Iraq," The Washington Post March 13, 2003
"Former president Bill Clinton, who has generally supported the Bush administration's Iraq policy in recent remarks, called on his successor yesterday to accept a more relaxed timeline in exchange for support from a majority of the United Nations Security Council members. ..[T]he former president has publicly espoused an approach substantially different from the administration's public stance."
"Deadline for war - Give the inspectors more time, urges Clinton" The Daily Telegraph March 13, 2003 "Bill Clinton yesterday urged the Bush administration to give Hans Blix as much time as he wants to complete weapons inspections in Iraq. The former president broke ranks with his successor...Mr Clinton said war might yet be avoided if Saddam Hussein were given more time to disarm. "
"Clinton recommends U.S. patience on Iraq," Reuters, February 11, 2003. "Former U.S. President Bill Clinton said in an interview broadcast on Tuesday the United States should exercise patience in its standoff with Iraq to help build allied support for a potential strike."
So, my take is that if Bill argued that we should "exercise patience" and he agreed with Hans Blix that he (Blix) needed more time to verify Bush's claim of WMDs etc., then it follows that he was, indeed, "opposed" to going to war in Iraq when Bush went to war in Iraq and the way he went to war in Iraq.

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

A helpful guide to the candidates' position on the war.

[TAPPY]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

A helpful guide to the candidates' position on the war.

That is funny, but also pretty dang close to what they really think !!

[PlayadelSoul]

Originally Posted by diogeron

For the record, my wife and I have been to the only fundraiser he has had in Indiana and have met him and are big fans. So, we sincerely hope Hillary is NOT the Democratic nominee. Now that's out of the way, let me say that I think all the criticism of Bill's statements is not totally fair. Let me offer this as evidence to counter the criticism that Bill Clinton was totally supportive of Bush's decision to go to war against Iraq when he took us to war against Iraq.
"Clinton Splits With Bush on Iraq," The Washington Post March 13, 2003
"Former president Bill Clinton, who has generally supported the Bush administration's Iraq policy in recent remarks, called on his successor yesterday to accept a more relaxed timeline in exchange for support from a majority of the United Nations Security Council members. ..[T]he former president has publicly espoused an approach substantially different from the administration's public stance."
"Deadline for war - Give the inspectors more time, urges Clinton" The Daily Telegraph March 13, 2003 "Bill Clinton yesterday urged the Bush administration to give Hans Blix as much time as he wants to complete weapons inspections in Iraq. The former president broke ranks with his successor...Mr Clinton said war might yet be avoided if Saddam Hussein were given more time to disarm. "
"Clinton recommends U.S. patience on Iraq," Reuters, February 11, 2003. "Former U.S. President Bill Clinton said in an interview broadcast on Tuesday the United States should exercise patience in its standoff with Iraq to help build allied support for a potential strike."
So, my take is that if Bill argued that we should "exercise patience" and he agreed with Hans Blix that he (Blix) needed more time to verify Bush's claim of WMDs etc., then it follows that he was, indeed, "opposed" to going to war in Iraq when Bush went to war in Iraq and the way he went to war in Iraq.

So, the Clintons covered all bases. What a surprise.

[melliedee]

Couldn't resist this tidbit from my Kucinich newsletter:


Emerson College's Students for Kucinich group recently held a very successful event that involved a combination of ice skating on the Boston Commons' Frog Pond while passing out brochures, holding signs, and selling Kucinich beanies.

[PlayadelSoul]

Originally Posted by melliedee

Couldn't resist this tidbit from my Kucinich newsletter:


Emerson College's Students for Kucinich group recently held a very successful event that involved a combination of ice skating on the Boston Commons' Frog Pond while passing out brochures, holding signs, and selling Kucinich beanies.

Do you think the country might be ready for Kucinich vs. Hucakabee? Gomer Pyle vs. Barney Fife

[dartay]

Originally Posted by diogeron

For the record, my wife and I have been to the only fundraiser he has had in Indiana and have met him and are big fans. So, we sincerely hope Hillary is NOT the Democratic nominee. Now that's out of the way, let me say that I think all the criticism of Bill's statements is not totally fair. Let me offer this as evidence to counter the criticism that Bill Clinton was totally supportive of Bush's decision to go to war against Iraq when he took us to war against Iraq.
"Clinton Splits With Bush on Iraq," The Washington Post March 13, 2003
"Former president Bill Clinton, who has generally supported the Bush administration's Iraq policy in recent remarks, called on his successor yesterday to accept a more relaxed timeline in exchange for support from a majority of the United Nations Security Council members. ..[T]he former president has publicly espoused an approach substantially different from the administration's public stance."
"Deadline for war - Give the inspectors more time, urges Clinton" The Daily Telegraph March 13, 2003 "Bill Clinton yesterday urged the Bush administration to give Hans Blix as much time as he wants to complete weapons inspections in Iraq. The former president broke ranks with his successor...Mr Clinton said war might yet be avoided if Saddam Hussein were given more time to disarm. "
"Clinton recommends U.S. patience on Iraq," Reuters, February 11, 2003. "Former U.S. President Bill Clinton said in an interview broadcast on Tuesday the United States should exercise patience in its standoff with Iraq to help build allied support for a potential strike."
So, my take is that if Bill argued that we should "exercise patience" and he agreed with Hans Blix that he (Blix) needed more time to verify Bush's claim of WMDs etc., then it follows that he was, indeed, "opposed" to going to war in Iraq when Bush went to war in Iraq and the way he went to war in Iraq.

"People can quarrel with whether we should have more troops in Afghanistan or internationalize Iraq or whatever, but it is incontestable that on the day I left office, there were unaccounted for stocks of biological and chemical weapons."

Former President Clinton
During an interview on CNN's "Larry King Live"
July 22, 2003

[sctx]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

So, the Clintons covered all bases. What a surprise.

I like the "war might yet be avoided if Saddam Hussein were given more time to disarm. "........... would that be 20, or 30, or 40 years..... or just one of them "round tuit" tokens???

[PlayadelSoul]

Yesterday, Hillary accused Obama of preparing for a Presidential run from the moment he entered the Senate. I was puzzled. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Seeing as she was wearing her matching Grrranimals in front of the mirror, teddy bear playing Supreme Court Justice, with a non-denominaitonal Bible in hand, I think she meant it wasn't enough preparation time.

[sctx]

Originally Posted by dartay

"People can quarrel with whether we should have more troops in Afghanistan or internationalize Iraq or whatever, but it is incontestable that on the day I left office, there were unaccounted for stocks of biological and chemical weapons."

Former President Clinton
During an interview on CNN's "Larry King Live"
July 22, 2003

yes, the UN is a wonderful organization