USA Presidential Politics - 2008

[Joana]

Originally Posted by Jacko

True, but she is not running on Bill's record...right? Jack

Very true- and that is one thing that makes me sorry for her- that she can easily appear like she is riding his coattails.
Still- as I outlined in my last post: I am sure she did get a few lessons learned about politics on the world stage during his time- and those she can use now, in case she wins.

[MWC]

Originally Posted by Joana

I've been following the whole process from here..... given that I would surely be a Dem if I lived in the States all I can say is- THANK GOODNESS I don't live in the States right now. As I really wouldn't know which to pick, to be honest.

First of all both are only nuances apart in their programs........ and programs, schmograms- in the end programs are one thing, following through and/ or changing them are other issues once the elections are over.

So the political stance wouldn't help me choose.

Then there is the first female president vs. first black president issue.
I think it is time for either. So no help here, too.

So for me it would come down to personal likes..... sympathy. And while I wish I could say I'd vote for the fellow female I am not really fond of Hillary- for many reasons. Yes, she may have more experience in politics- but not only of the positive kind. I also just can't get a positive feel for her and can't even say why.Obama- well, by now there is too much of a hype around him for me to feel comfortable liking him.......as, after all, he IS the less experienced of the two and seems a bit TOO optimistic for me.

So in the end- 1:1 on program, 1:1 on groundbreaking gender/race, -1:-1 on personal liking.

Thank God I don't have to choose!!!

Join the club.
It's a most vexing situation ... but only if she turns things around .

[Joana]

Originally Posted by ryberg

Ha! Nobody around here better talk about shooting Joana -- including you, Joana!

My, but that comment did bring 'em out of the woodwork on you rather quickly, didn't it?

But on the positive side for the Clinton campaign, they are evidently getting that part of their message all the way to Germany!

Of the First Lady part, I do think it's fair to count as experience her work with the Clinton health care matter, where she was clearly in charge of something, though she may prefer not to.

Obama strikes me as a decidedly non-German-compatible type of candidate. I imagine Clinton's approach would fall much more in line with a sort of stereotypical German perspective. Though I don't know, I'm obviously not German and such a claim could not avoid being a big generalization about the people there these days.

Steve

As far as palpable to me everyone here is leaning towards Obama atm., press and private alike.
Just as me most do not see a lot of difference in their programs- so it comes down to sympathy.
Mr. Clintons dig at Obama came off wrong here as it did there- and she comes off as too cold and too much into tactics for many peoples tastes here PLUS there are the old times that follow her around.
The press seems to be on the Obama wagon right now and sharing the enthusiasm about his person.

[MWC]

Originally Posted by Joana

Still- if I let out the experience factor in the equation..... I STILL have the same prob, can't get "warm" with her, find him to "enthusiastic".

If I had to vote there you'd probably see me flipping a coin........

Elections coming here are a lot easier- find all parties involved here in the state unbearable atm and thus will make a BIG cross so my vote can not be given away via percentage.

Do they hand out cash to encourage voter turnout?

[Joana]

Originally Posted by MWC

Join the club.
It's a most vexing situation ... but only if she turns things around .

And I am really not sure she will..........
The one factor that I can't get a grip on being the super-delegates. I am really not sure which way they will swing with the limited knowledge of the situation that I have.

[Joana]

Originally Posted by MWC

Do they hand out cash to encourage voter turnout?

at the moment

Was too lazy to type the dots.

I could REALLY do with some cash though- could you email them your suggestion?

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by Joana

Very true- and that is one thing that makes me sorry for her- that she can easily appear like she is riding his coattails.
Still- as I outlined in my last post: I am sure she did get a few lessons learned about politics on the world stage during his time- and those she can use now, in case she wins.

You are right of course...and I think she would make a fine President....I just don't think she would make the BEST President of the two remaining Democrats and I am not certain she is the most ELECTABLE of the two remaining.

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by Joana

And I am really not sure she will..........
The one factor that I can't get a grip on being the super-delegates. I am really not sure which way they will swing with the limited knowledge of the situation that I have.

I believe they will swing with the popular vote...unless it is VERY close.

[MWC]

Originally Posted by Jacko

I believe they will swing with the popular vote...unless it is VERY close.

Obama's online operation has unleashed the hounds.
They have given their online supporters the information they need to start lobbying superdelegates.
And they've encouraged us all to get cracking!

What a great race this is ...

[Joana]

Steve- as for how Germans follow the elections: HERE is an article about how things are being percieved. Note the common undertone in the citations that one worry is that Clinton might not know when to give up and thus damage Obama.

[ryberg]

Originally Posted by Joana

I would also take the stand that even if she hadn't been in charge of anything (negative or positive.....) she WAS subject to the political world stage at that time, and I am sure she was not a first lady that was just there to show of her new dresses but followed the ongoings actively. That is experience of some sort to me as well.......not the active and in charge sort, true- but knowledge about how to play the game by watching and probably advising more than we know.

Well you can argue that, of course, and there's certainly some merit in that argument, though in the US, many probably have in mind just the sort of things Scott is referring to in his quips, when they think of her experience. Then there's also the more general factor that it is, as some commentators have said, very odd in this particular election year to stress your experience with and preparedness for the kind of politics we've had over the past decade or two, given the public's high level of dissatisfaction with that type of politics and the ability to rally around someone who is telling them that instead we can do things differently. Those two factors together I think remove a lot of motiviation the Obama camp might otherwise feel to try to respond and correct the record more on the experience issue and claims about hers. It may well be working to his advantage, that line of hers, rather more than to hers.

Originally Posted by Joana

As far as palpable to me everyone here is leaning towards Obama atm., press and private alike.
Just as me most do not see a lot of difference in their programs- so it comes down to sympathy.
Mr. Clintons dig at Obama came off wrong here as it did there- and she comes off as too cold and too much into tactics for many peoples tastes here PLUS there are the old times that follow her around.
The press seems to be on the Obama wagon right now and sharing the enthusiasm about his person.

Well I stand corrected! Perhaps though it's easier to do when you're on the outside, looking in? Dunno.

Interesting to hear that about the race thing and Bill and the reception of that there...

Steve

[ryberg]

Originally Posted by Joana

Steve- as for how Germans follow the elections: HERE is an article about how things are being percieved. Note the common undertone in the citations that one worry is that Clinton might not know when to give up and thus damage Obama.

Aware that one could try to make a joke of this sort, I nevertheless think you got the wrong URL pasted in, there, amiga.

Steve

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by ryberg

Aware that one could try to make a joke of this sort, I nevertheless think you got the wrong URL pasted in, there, amiga.

Steve

[Joana]

Originally Posted by ryberg

Well you can argue that, of course, and there's certainly some merit in that argument, though in the US, many probably have in mind just the sort of things Scott is referring to in his quips, when they think of her experience. Then there's also the more general factor that it is, as some commentators have said, very odd in this particular election year to stress your experience with and preparedness for the kind of politics we've had over the past decade or two, given the public's high level of dissatisfaction with that type of politics and the ability to rally around someone who is telling them that instead we can do things differently. Those two factors together I think remove a lot of motiviation the Obama camp might otherwise feel to try to respond and correct the record more on the experience issue and claims about hers. It may well be working to his advantage, that line of hers, rather more than to hers.

Well I stand corrected! Perhaps though it's easier to do when you're on the outside, looking in? Dunno.

Interesting to hear that about the race thing and Bill and the reception of that there...

Steve

On the first part- see, therein lies the trouble for her, right? The fact that many(most) want rapid changes now and that she has been part of the "old" system. She's damned if she stresses her experience- and damned if she didn't. In the latter case people would probably accuse her of trying to "blank out" the past.

On the latter- I think the pendulum was in the middle for a long time over here..... in the middle of the Democrats that is. Their process has been followed a lot closer than that of the Reps- and I think in part that is so because over here many are expecting that the Dems will win.
I think it has swung towards Obama right now due to how Clinton has seemed so..... bitter at pionts recently and how she seemed to become more and more frantic in a way. Hard to explain.
He seems to be taking things with a smile and a stride while she seems to be fighting too much (although that, fighting, is exactly what gets anyone up there in the first place).

People DO follow the developing hype about Obama with scepticism though- mostly because we also get the same reports as you in the US about him not being THE carismatic orator once the teleprompter is gone etc..

I think the main thing for the German "feel" right now- and both would seem to bring that- is a bit of a less confrontational course in international (coughMiddleEastRussiacough) matters............. less confrontational in the sense of going to war, not in the sense of diplomacy or sanctions.

[Joana]

Originally Posted by ryberg

Aware that one could try to make a joke of this sort, I nevertheless think you got the wrong URL pasted in, there, amiga.

Steve

OMG- I think I am about to pee my pants. BEST. MISTAKE. EVER.

One sec!!

Now for the right link- and DO pay special attention to her pose, esp. in the light of the accidentally linked article before.... she needs to work on that before her first trip here if she becomes president!! LINK