USA Presidential Politics - 2008

[itsmysecondtime]

Originally Posted by dartay

If cleaning up after means causing 9-11 then you'd be correct.

Which cabalized version of history are you reading?

[sctx]

Originally Posted by itsmysecondtime

Which cabalized version of history are you reading?

yeah, that's what I was thinking...probably a brain fart when he typed "Clinton"....it is rather close to "Carter"

[itsmysecondtime]

Originally Posted by sctx

yeah, that's what I was thinking...probably a brain fart when he typed "Clinton"....it is rather close to "Carter"

Yeah, no kidding, a rushed look at the Iran Contra affair would chill the confusion in a gif.

[dartay]

Originally Posted by itsmysecondtime

Which cabalized version of history are you reading?

I just don't have my head in the sand.

World trade center 1, the African embassies, The USS Cole, Saddam snubbing the world by kicking the weapons inspectors out, the North Korean appeasement embarressment.

What did Clinton do? Absolutely nothing. He didn't go after Bin Laden when he was out in the open. He didn't do anything about Saddam except pass a resolution advocating regime change. He certainly didn't have the cajones to do it or anything hard that needed to be done. Instead he passed everything to the next guy, who happened to be Bush. He was to busy getting his knob polished and his cigars flavored.

He was a big part of why 9-11 happened. The Bush regime should have been sooner to act.

Now we're supposed to think that the hole running for the democratic nomination can do anything? She couldn't take care of the homefront - ever. "Once fooled shame on you, twice fooled shame on me!" - Lewinski, Jones, Flowers, Broaddrick, Willey, etc etc.

Clean up the mess? That's laughable.

[roni]

Clean up the mess is only laughable if one believes that the Bush/Cheney Mess is too big to be cleaned up by anyone.

I believe it is close to that, but not beyond it. I am tired of those two trashing my country.

[PlayadelSoul]

Originally Posted by roni

Clean up the mess is only laughable if one believes that the Bush/Cheney Mess is too big to be cleaned up by anyone.

I believe it is close to that, but not beyond it. I am tired of those two trashing my country.

You are tired of feeling like they are trashing to country. I feel completely different.

[dartay]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

You are tired of feeling like they are trashing to country. I feel completely different.

[roni]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

You are tired of feeling like they are trashing to country. I feel completely different.

Point taken, but I feel like history will lean more toward my feeling then yours

[ryberg]

Originally Posted by dartay

If cleaning up after means causing 9-11 then you'd be correct.

You are become the Democrats' best voice, here.

You may want to read up on what cause can mean, if you want to change that trend.

The irony is that you'll label a liberal extremist somebody who just says something completely arguable but critical about Bush, such as that the motives to go into Iraq were more complicated than he lets on, or that the information was dressed up to support those motives, or some such thing.

Then you turn around and say that Clinton et al. of the Dems caused 9/11, seemingly unaware of that irony.

I've hardly envisioned a view that far to the right, so maybe you could let us know while you're over there if there is a considerably high percentage of folks who believe that the Dems caused 9/11. Maybe a national poll on that question would be interesting!

Former President Bill Clinton and/or other Democrat party leaders caused 4 jetliners full of their fellow Americans and packed with highly flammable jet fuel to be hijacked and flown into the ground, the Pentagon, and the World Trade Center Towers, tragically causing thousands more of their fellow Americans to die violent deaths, on September 11th, 2001.

[A]gree [D]isagree [u]nsure

Be interesting to see what kind of percentage your view would get, there.

And funny, but you know, it just occurs to me that if the Dems actually caused 9/11, then going into Afghanistan right after that -- indeed the whole hunt for Bin Laden and terrorist types which ultimately provides the Bush administration's (official) justification for the war in Iraq -- is just totally misguided, wrong and, frankly, stupid. Not to mention being a colossal waste of lives of American troops alongside all the expense and international tension and all of that. All they needed to do was put Clinton up on treason charges or something!

But wait a minute, with this view, suddenly you are the guy who's soft on terror! Just hard on the opposing party here at home. But then, that view would make sense if that party caused 9/11...

Steve

p.s. I would be interested to hear what other attacks on America (Pearl Harbor? a Dem was in office, you know!), or other American tragic events of other sorts (how about that Katrina, huh?), you and those on that end of the continuum believe the Dems may have caused...

[ryberg]

Actually, on second thought, this way of thinking may in fact have a lot of potential, here! For example, I recently purchased an $80 boxed set of Coltrane CDs of his famous quartet of the early/mid-60s from Amazon, a purchase my wife might, you know, view as suspect or criticize. BUT, she could have stopped me, if she'd tried -- you know how that is, men! -- and she didn't, and, as a result, I bought it. Ergo, Delmy caused me to spend all that money on that boxed set! It's her fault! I knew it!

And -- voilá! -- I am off the hook, ladies & gentlemen!

At the same time, I can console myself with my Chiefs' early and even downright embarrassing departure from the NFL post-season by remembering that the Chiefs caused the Colts to get to the Superbowl. I mean, forget this guy Mann, Manson, Mannon, whatever his name is -- the Chiefs were in a position to have stopped the Colts but didn't, therefore we can under this approach conclude that they caused the Colts' current situation. Colts fans can just send cash, if they like.

And I guess Ravens and Patriots fans can feel equally consoled.

Oh, but, hang on a second... Did they all cause the Colts to get to the Superbowl? And hey, didn't the Colts themselves have anything to do with it?

Aw, geez -- now I'm getting confused again...



Steve

[StewartG]

Originally Posted by MWC

Low blow, I don't think Dad left the country in nearly the mess Sonny will be leaving it ...

FWIW, I completely agree.

[StewartG]

Originally Posted by ryberg

Actually, on second thought, this way of thinking may in fact have a lot of potential, here! For example, I recently purchased an $80 boxed set of Coltrane CDs of his famous quartet of the early/mid-60s from Amazon, a purchase my wife might, you know, view as suspect or criticize. BUT, she could have stopped me, if she'd tried -- you know how that is, men! -- and she didn't, and, as a result, I bought it. Ergo, Delmy caused me to spend all that money on that boxed set! It's her fault! I knew it!

And -- voilá! -- I am off the hook, ladies & gentlemen!

At the same time, I can console myself with my Chiefs' early and even downright embarrassing departure from the NFL post-season by remembering that the Chiefs caused the Colts to get to the Superbowl. I mean, forget this guy Mann, Manson, Mannon, whatever his name is -- the Chiefs were in a position to have stopped the Colts but didn't, therefore we can under this approach conclude that they caused the Colts' current situation. Colts fans can just send cash, if they like.

And I guess Ravens and Patriots fans can feel equally consoled.

Oh, but, hang on a second... Did they all cause the Colts to get to the Superbowl? And hey, didn't the Colts themselves have anything to do with it?

Aw, geez -- now I'm getting confused again...



Steve

Darty is a tough nut for me, and one of the reasons I'm not in the political threads as much as I used to be. He seems like a good guy with, at his core, a good heart, but his thinking and logic strikes me as so completely different that I sometimes feel I am dealing with an alien being when I debate with him.

Some of the guys on the board are just assh*les, and its easy for me to dismiss their ramblings as nothing more than vitriol, bile and self-contempt. (YEAH, I'm talking about YOU Mark - what you gonna do about it? ) Some of the guys on the board have a very conservative world view, but are obviously kind, compassionate people who share a deep respect for humanity, charity, and the other shared values of most Americans. (Okay Mark, so you're really in this catagory... )

But then there are guys like Darty - honestly, he does seem like a nice guy, but his sense of logic and core values are so utterly confusing to me, that I can't even find a basis on which to interact.

Its like an experience I had in law school once. And please note, I'm using this story ONLY to illustrate my point about not being able to connect or relate to another human. I do *NOT* believe that dartay is a racist of any kind!!!

Anyway, I had a class in law school and needed a study partner. I didn't know anyone, so I just randomly asked the girl sitting next to me on the second or third day if she wanted to get together to share notes and work together. We started doing that, and she seemed like a nice person. We had some shared interests and hobbies and got along well. We met every couple of weeks, often at the ORIGINAL Kim Son location in Houston near the law school (I miss that place). After a while we were just... friends.

Later that semester we were out somewhere and started talking about post graduation plans. She was lamenting her situation, unsure about what to do, where to go, etc. I started in on the same lament. She looks at me and says (with NO malice whatsoever) "But aren't you Jewish?" I said yes. She kind of smiled and said, "So what do YOU have to worry about?" I asked her what she was talking about. She said something like, "Well, the network. You can work anywhere you want, can't you?" So, I laughed at her joke. She, in turn, looked at me with great confusion and asked what I was laughing at.

She wasn't kidding.

I share this story, again, only to illustrate my point that there are some people in the world who have SUCH a completely different view of facts, logic, reality, etc than I that I just can't find a shared basis on which to connect. For me, dartay is such a person. Again, he seems like a very nice guy, and I do not believe he is frothing with malice or bitterness like some folks on this board. I just find myself thinking that my core beliefs are so very different from his that I can't usefully engage him in debate.

[AEHuy]

Originally Posted by StewartG

some people in the world who have SUCH a completely different view of facts, logic, reality, etc.

Their called republicans and democrats

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by StewartG

Darty is a tough nut for me, and one of the reasons I'm not in the political threads as much as I used to be. He seems like a good guy with, at his core, a good heart, but his thinking and logic strikes me as so completely different that I sometimes feel I am dealing with an alien being when I debate with him.

Some of the guys on the board are just assh*les, and its easy for me to dismiss their ramblings as nothing more than vitriol, bile and self-contempt. (YEAH, I'm talking about YOU Mark - what you gonna do about it? ) Some of the guys on the board have a very conservative world view, but are obviously kind, compassionate people who share a deep respect for humanity, charity, and the other shared values of most Americans. (Okay Mark, so you're really in this catagory... )

But then there are guys like Darty - honestly, he does seem like a nice guy, but his sense of logic and core values are so utterly confusing to me, that I can't even find a basis on which to interact.

Tell me again why door #1 doesn't apply?

[itsmysecondtime]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

You are tired of feeling like they are trashing to country. I feel completely different.

Completely different indeed. I wonder where your head really is.

Clinton leaves office and the country with an umaparalel $286 Billion federal surplus. Now Dubya considers a $286 Billion federal deficit a prime reason to call the press.

Consider who's responsible for the four largest federal deficit busts of all time.
1. 2004 (George W. Bush) $413 billion
2. 2003 (George W. Bush) $378 billion
3. 2005 (George W. Bush) $318 billion
4. 2006 (George W. Bush) $296 billion (projected)

Consider who is responsible for the 5th largest federal deficit of all time.
5. 5. 1992 (George H. W. Bush) $290 billion

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/11/...rgest-deficit/

Confortable feeling indeed.