USA Presidential Politics - 2008

[ryberg]

Originally Posted by Jacko

Read my words more carefully and you will slowly be enlightened with the answers to your questions.

But I think you're supposed to say, "and my meaning will emerge" there, at the end.

Steve

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by Just Lucky

Define liberal hushand.

Make it your next post.

Why that would be like me, husband of Linda!

[ryberg]

Maybe you view the Ferraro incident differently or heard different things at different times or something, Melliedee, but this is pretty much what I remember, and is what strikes me as quite at odds with Clinton's own strident remarks to Obama:

Clinton Disagrees With but Declines to Press Ferraro

Sen. Hillary Clinton's campaign declined today to force former Democratic vice-presidential candidate Geraldine Ferraro from its finance committee, as her rival Sen. Barack Obama and his aides demanded, after Ferraro suggested Obama would not be in the position he is not if not for his race and gender.

Instead, Clinton's campaign manager Maggie Williams sent out a statement repeating Clinton's remarks to the Associated Press from earlier in the day. "I do not agree with that," Clinton had said of Ferraro's comments, "and you know it's regrettable that any of our supporters on both sides say things that veer off into the personal. We ought to keep this focused on the issues. That's what this campaign should be about."

This despite this being after the Power incident, and with Ferraro proceeding to defend her comment on various shows.

FWIW.

Steve

[melliedee]

Originally Posted by ryberg

I really don't know why you still think this is my view and are adding the bits about claiming no knowledge of it.

I criticized Clinton for downplaying what Ferraro said, saying "oh, you know, this happens on both sides" and giving it the "no big deal" treatment, only renouncing the views expressed, when it was Clinton herself who so famously insisted that renouncing wasn't enough when the shoe was on the other foot.

I do have criticisms for Obama on Wright: I have repeatedly said he needs to move on that issue and to do so convincingly. I wouldn't say he needs to fire Wright only because Wright is not on his finance committee or officially connected with Obama's campaign in any other way (as far as I know -- am I wrong?) and Obama is not the board of deacons or whatever of the church Wright is a past or of (as far as I know) and you don't "fire" the people you are otherwise personally involved with or connected to. In that objective respect alone, the situation is clearly different from that of Clinton and Ferraro. If you don't think it's different in the way we've been discussing, with regard to a years-long personal relationship between the two as does not seem to exist between Ferraro and Clinton (as far as I know), OK, but I am not saying Obama doesn't have to do anything about Wright. I've repeatedly said the opposite.

Should he do a 2-minute riff on freedom of speech like Roni said? I don't know. Maybe. Should he finesse things more? I don't know. Maybe. Should he do something this evening or Sunday morning on the news shows or...? I don't know. Maybe. This doesn't equal "he doesn't need to do anything" though.

Steve

Wright serves on the campaign's African American Religious Leadership Commitee. It was in my first post about this topic.

I know you've said he needs to distance himself, but you have repeatedly said that the same standards do not apply to the Ferraro comments and I disagree. Fine, we disagree.

Obama was right to fire Power. He acted swiftly and rejected the politics of division in the way have come to expect from him. I hope he does the right thing here. I further hope that he takes a moment to comment on the differing viewpoint of his church. Not to explain or justify, but to educate folks who undoubtedly will be "scared" by these clips.

[melliedee]

Hot off the Huffington Post:

With Rev. Wright's retirement and the ascension of my new pastor, Rev. Otis Moss, III, Michelle and I look forward to continuing a relationship with a church that has done so much good. And while Rev. Wright's statements have pained and angered me, I believe that Americans will judge me not on the basis of what someone else said, but on the basis of who I am and what I believe in; on my values, judgment and experience to be President of the United States.

Barack Obama: On My Faith and My Church - Politics on The Huffington Post

[ryberg]

Originally Posted by melliedee

Wright serves on the campaign's African American Religious Leadership Commitee. It was in my first post about this topic.

Ah, well, then he needs to be fired, yes.

Originally Posted by melliedee

I know you've said he needs to distance himself, but you have repeatedly said that the same standards do not apply to the Ferraro comments and I disagree. Fine, we disagree.

Nope, I haven't (not if I understand what you're saying there), but yes, fine, we disagree.

Originally Posted by melliedee

Obama was right to fire Power. He acted swiftly and rejected the politics of division in the way have come to expect from him. I hope he does the right thing here. I further hope that he takes a moment to comment on the differing viewpoint of his church. Not to explain or justify, but to educate folks who undoubtedly will be "scared" by these clips.

Agree heartily with all of that. And again I'm sorry but I did not suggest firing only because I thought the guy was his pastor and though I knew he helped with fundraising for Obama (as Ferraro has already said she will continue to do for Clinton), I did not realize he had an official connection like that with the campaign. Yes, the same standards in that regard should apply, then, and Obama should fire him, and soon (or as you or others said, the guy should do the right thing by Obama and campaign and beat him to it and step down).

Steve

[Just Lucky]

Originally Posted by melliedee

Hot off the Huffington Post:



Barack Obama: On My Faith and My Church - Politics on The Huffington Post

Good stuff! He should visit the lions den at Fox "News" and discuss this.

Keep hope alive!

Edit] forgot the quote marks

[Just Lucky]

Originally Posted by Jacko

Why that would be like me, husband of Linda!

And lucky you are to have the bonita Linda!

[melliedee]

Originally Posted by ryberg

Agree heartily with all of that. And again I'm sorry but I did not suggest firing only because I thought the guy was his pastor and though I knew he helped with fundraising for Obama (as Ferraro has already said she will continue to do for Clinton), I did not realize he had an official connection like that with the campaign. Yes, the same standards in that regard should apply, then, and Obama should fire him, and soon (or as you or others said, the guy should do the right thing by Obama and campaign and beat him to it and step down).

Steve

That route would be okay with you? It's not a trick question either.

[sctx]

Originally Posted by Just Lucky

And lucky you are to have the bonita Linda!

she's not quite as liberal.... keeps Jacko from goin off the deep end

[MWC]

Gawd.
If Florida wanted to do a service to this country, it would find a way to hold its do-over primary vote right now.

We need voting activity to keep our priorities straight!

If this is what the next six weeks is going to be about,
I shall be a very sad banana.


Oh.

Just sad here.

Maybe projectile sad.

[Just Lucky]

Originally Posted by sctx

she's not quite as liberal.... keeps Jacko from goin off the deep end

There are good things about the deep end.

It's better for divers like the ones at Barton Springs for example.

[ryberg]

Well whatever Obama said -- I haven't seen it yet -- it's already evidently convinced at least conservative columnist David Brooks, based on what I just saw on the NewsHour.

DAVID BROOKS:: And I think, in the last week, the Democratic Party has verged on going crazy with bitter attacks over trivial issues. And so people are shedding aides left and right.

It's time to really get this under control. And I will say one thing that I think Barack Obama did today, which was fantastic -- there's been these little contretemps about his pastor, Jeremiah Wright...

JIM LEHRER: This is Jeremiah Wright, the pastor in Chicago.

DAVID BROOKS: ... who said some remarkably offensive things, I think. And Obama this afternoon gave a statement denouncing that, explaining why he was a member of the church. It was a statement of dignity and it was a perfect statement.

And it was the first moment in this week where we've seen one of the candidates, instead of getting in the mud, actually rise above it and remind us why most Democrats, especially, like these two.

And so Obama's statement today was the first segment in the whole week where we haven't seen just a nasty back-and-forth, calling someone else a racist, someone else to resign, 3 a.m. call, there's a racial undertone. It's just been at that level, and we had a glimmer of hope, I think, this afternoon.

JIM LEHRER: You saw the same glimmer, Mark?

MARK SHIELDS: I did see the glimmer, Jim. I do see it a little bit differently. I thought what Geraldine Ferraro did was of a piece with what Governor Rendell said in Pennsylvania, that certain whites will not vote for a black candidate, similar to what Bill Clinton said after the South Carolina primary, comparing Barack Obama to Jesse Jackson... [source]

Steve

[ryberg]

Oh, that is good.

It's also here if anyone is looking for it: On My Faith and My Church. I'm not saying it's perfect, but it's very well handled, there (I think, even if Roni thinks it's just typical old-style political smooth talk with no sincerity ).

I still think the guy has to go. A little harder if he's already retiring. Kind of some wiggle room there, I suppose, in the public eye, if Obama's thinking he'll try to keep him on and suffer the cost for that due to personal loyalties and family connections or whatever. But his statement strikes me as quite reasonable and sincere and a responsible and effective answer to the lion's share of concern people could express on this issue, at least.

Steve

Edit: Oh, and he's already been fired, apparently:

Wright has been dismissed from the campaign's spiritual advisory board. [source]

Well done.

[melliedee]

I posted the "On my Faith" link an hour ago. You should really turn on Hannity and Colmes, Obama will respond and they are showing clips of an interview with Wright.