USA Presidential Politics - 2008

[ryberg]

How offensive it must be to black voters to be so taken for granted and stereotyped. Again, it's just what Clyburn said.

No, she has a mathematical chance, she just has no realistic or reasonable chance to win, given the math.

I believe mathematically speaking, I also still have a chance of winning the Democratic campaign for the nomination of a presidential candidate for this year. As do Edwards and Dodd and Richardson and that guy Gravel and Kucinich and -- well no, not his wife, 'cause she wasn't an American citizen by birth -- but an awful lot of other people. Nader has a chance to pull it off, just like he has a mathematical chance to win office as an independent.

It's what's reasonable that's relevant, I think, especially with respect to the risks involved or the damage potential.

Steve

[beerbreath]

Originally Posted by roni

Run the numbers and present the case. I don't think any Dem candidate is going to lose that vote.

If Hillary "steals" the election blacks and young people will not vote,and will not vote for a long time.

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by roni

Most of my negativity about Obama has related directly to what I see as his problems getting elected - and have been, for the most part, more data-centric than many of the observations about Clinton.

I think the recent polls are starting to indicate that my sense about his ability to win the election in November have some basis. My sense was certainly grounded in my decades as a keen observer of the American political scene and of my experiences in the US midwest and mid-south region.

My personal opinion is that I am still on target with that.

Do you actually think that most of our criticism DOES NOT have to do with our concerns about her ability to get elected in the general? Really?...C'mon roni...step back there and think about what we are discussing here... Her negatives have gotten worse...trusting her is a major factor of concern in the Democratic electorate...think what it will be in the general.

And you think somehow you have been more objective here than the rest of us? Ron....c'mon man...you got your data...I got my data...you should really think about not fooling yourself into thinking that somehow you have managed to keep yourself above this political fray and remain more objective....IMO you are waist deep in the Hillary caca machine and you are drinking her kool-aid with as much thirst as the most avid Obama fan on the board.....

You still haven't told me what you think about her not objecting to the commentary about the flag pin labels and the suggestion that Obama is somehow un-patriotic because of it.....she could have objected...she should have objected...she did not....and that is just a start...does this sound presidential to you? Or just someone who is so anxious to win that she has lowered some of our most precious liberal ethics?

Or the Weatherman bombing association and inference...should she have objected to that? Or is this just what we want in a "tough" candidate?

And you have never mentioned what you thought about her "lie" about Bosnia..don't you think that significant as we all make character judgments and assess our ability to trust our candidates?

[ryberg]

Originally Posted by beerbreath

If Hillary "steals" the election blacks and young people will not vote,and will not vote for a long time.

I'm not particularly young, nor particularly black, but I think you can safely count me in when tallying up those who would back out political activity and involvement in such a situation.

The good thing is that superdelegates would almost certainly never be so blind to the good of the party (including of course themselves) as to let it cone to pass. I can easily imagine waves of defections of those previously committed to Clinton back to Obama to block any such move, if it ever got started.

Steve

[beerbreath]

Originally Posted by ryberg

I'm not particularly young, nor particularly black, but I think you can safely count me in when tallying up those who would back out political activity and involvement in such a situation.

The good thing is that superdelegates would almost certainly never be so blind to the good of the party (including of course themselves) as to let it cone to pass. I can easily imagine waves of defections of those previously committed to Clinton back to Obama to block any such move, if it ever got started.

Steve

I hope she does not try to do it,but I think Hillary Clinton is as dirty as they come.

[roni]

Nobody is going to steal the nomination.

The Democratic party has rules for selecting a nominee. Those rules will be followed. Anyone who wins the vote of the delegates and gains the nomination will, by definition, be the legitimate nominee.

Ya'll may not like all the rules. I don't like all the rules. The rules will probably change before 2012, but they are what we have for now.

It is impossible for the nomination to be stolen.

The candidate receiving the majority of delegate votes at the nominating convention will be the nominee.

[Just Lucky]

Speaking of John McCain:

10 things you should know about John McCain (but probably don't):

1. John McCain voted against establishing a national holiday in honor of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Now he says his position has "evolved," yet he's continued to oppose key civil rights laws.1
2. According to Bloomberg News, McCain is more hawkish than Bush on Iraq, Russia and China. Conservative columnist Pat Buchanan says McCain "will make Cheney look like Gandhi."2
3. His reputation is built on his opposition to torture, but McCain voted against a bill to ban waterboarding, and then applauded President Bush for vetoing that ban.3
4. McCain opposes a woman's right to choose. He said, "I do not support Roe versus Wade. It should be overturned."4
5. The Children's Defense Fund rated McCain as the worst senator in Congress for children. He voted against the children's health care bill last year, then defended Bush's veto of the bill.5
6. He's one of the richest people in a Senate filled with millionaires. The Associated Press reports he and his wife own at least eight homes! Yet McCain says the solution to the housing crisis is for people facing foreclosure to get a "second job" and skip their vacations.6
7. Many of McCain's fellow Republican senators say he's too reckless to be commander in chief. One Republican senator said: "The thought of his being president sends a cold chill down my spine. He's erratic. He's hotheaded. He loses his temper and he worries me."7
8. McCain talks a lot about taking on special interests, but his campaign manager and top advisers are actually lobbyists. The government watchdog group Public Citizen says McCain has 59 lobbyists raising money for his campaign, more than any of the other presidential candidates.8
9. McCain has sought closer ties to the extreme religious right in recent years. The pastor McCain calls his "spiritual guide," Rod Parsley, believes America's founding mission is to destroy Islam, which he calls a "false religion." McCain sought the political support of right-wing preacher John Hagee, who believes Hurricane Katrina was God's punishment for gay rights and called the Catholic Church "the Antichrist" and a "false cult."9
10. He positions himself as pro-environment, but he scored a 0—yes, zero—from the League of Conservation Voters last year.10

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by roni

Nobody is going to steal the nomination.

The Democratic party has rules for selecting a nominee. Those rules will be followed. Anyone who wins the vote of the delegates and gains the nomination will, be defintion, be the legitimate nominee.

Ya'll may not like all the rules. I don't like all the rules. The rules will probably change before 2012, but they are what we have for now.

It is impossible for the nomination to be stolen.

The candidate receiving the majority of delegate votes at the nominating convention will be the nominee.

Be certain you remember those rules when we talk about Michigan and Florida..'kay?

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by beerbreath

I hope she does not try to do it,but I think Hillary Clinton is as dirty as they come.

I disagree with that statement...IMO, she is merely slightly ethically distracted by her strong desire to win....

[beerbreath]

Originally Posted by Jacko

I disagree with that statement...IMO, she is merely slightly ethically distracted by her strong desire to win....

THAT was funny!

[ryberg]

The more I think about it, the more I'm floored by the idea that there's no need to be concerned about the black vote and that black people will still vote for Clinton even in a situation where the superdelegates (who again happen to be predominantly white) joined to go against the pledged delegate results after all this and make Clinton (who also happens to be white) the nomination over the first African American person to ever rise so high in the process.

Sheer and utter outrage on the part of women would be the justified response if the situation were reversed. So to then suggest that in that situation, Dems needn't worry about the female vote...

Well as I say, I'm floored by such a suggestion and how offensive it must be to the given group being so taken for granted.

Steve

[Just Lucky]

Originally Posted by Jacko

I disagree with that statement...IMO, she is merely slightly ethically distracted by her strong desire to win....

Here's the way the next President of the United States looks at the race.

"I didn't get in this race, to run against Senator Clinton. I ran to run against unemployment. I ran to run against lack of educational opportunity. I ran to run against lack of health care, and substandard housing and a war that we should not have been fought. That's why I'm running," Obama said and then repeated again, "I'm not running against Sen. Clinton.".... "This election is not about me. It's not about Senator Clinton. It's not about John McCain. It's about you. It's about your struggles, your hopes, your dreams."

link

Is it possible we could follow his lead and talk about the issues and what's at stake in this election?

[beerbreath]

If God forbid Hillary "steals" the election,are they going to play Tammy Wynette's "Stand by your man" before her big speech?

[MikeW]

I have another bumper sticker from Berkeley that says

QUESTION REALITY

I flip/flop between that one and

REALITY SUCKS

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by Just Lucky

Here's the way the next President of the United States looks at the race.

link

[b]Is it possible we could follow his lead and talk about the issues and what's at stake in this election?

The most important "We" here would be the candidates...this is hard for my candidate to do while constantly barraged with bogus issues from the media and reinforced by his Democratic opponent who doesn't even object to the most bogus of charges and attempt to redirect the discussion to the issues...I saw what happened in the Pa debate.......

I agree it is up to Obama to find a way...one way to do this is to refuse to debate further given the nonsensical spectacles they have become....

I believe he will find a way...and I believe he will win the nomination and then the general election....