USA Presidential Politics - 2008

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by blueton

Well the clumsy comment seemed fairly mild to me compared to your aggresive comments - chicken shit, the racist slur (fu**in kike) that you tried to label against Roni etc.
|B

blueton, I feel compelled to point out that your accusation above is ....well...it is a bit clumsy I am afraid...you see, I do not believe that Stewart "tried to label roni a fu**in kike" at all...you could check that out and please be a little more clear with that type of insult please.

Now lets all please simmah dah nah a bit...eh..and all try to be a little less clumsy?

[roni]

Originally Posted by ryberg

My daddy is bigger than your daddy.

Steve

Okay, but mine is probably older

and is a Dr. Rev. in the same denomination as the Dr. Rev. Wright

[blueton]

Originally Posted by Jacko

blueton, I feel compelled to point out that your accusation above is ....well...it is a bit clumsy I am afraid...you see, I do not believe that Stewart "tried to label roni a fu**in kike" at all...you could check that out and please be a little more clear with that type of insult please.

Now lets all please simmah dah nah a bit...eh..and all try to be a little less clumsy?

No of course not.

I meant the 'kike slur' that being was suggested could be attributed against Roni. Sorry for being clumsy but I think most people will understand the point frankly.

[ryberg]

Tee-hee: Obliterate-gate has now knocked Wright off as top story on CNN.

Nice of her to throw in the phrase "massive retaliation" there, too. I guess when the #2 topic currently worrying voters is the lousy war we got ourselves entrenched in in Iraq, they won't be exactly overly enthused by hearing a candidate for the White House talk about "obliterating" Iran with "massive retaliation" and the like.

Kinda like Bush. Maybe she's envious and figures she needs her own quagmire in the Middle East to lead us into (not just to vote for, like his!).

Just remember, though: as she herself pointed out, she's the only candidate who will really and truly get us out of Iraq!

Steve

[StewartG]

Originally Posted by blueton

Well the clumsy comment seemed fairly mild to me compared to your aggresive comments - chicken shit, the racist slur (fu**in kike) that you tried to label against Roni etc.

You may want to re-read the posts in question. It may alter your perception somewhat. I do not think you have an accurate picture of what happened.

[StewartG]

Originally Posted by blueton

No of course not.

I meant the 'kike slur' that being was suggested could be attributed against Roni. Sorry for being clumsy but I think most people will understand the point frankly.

I did not call Roni a kike. Really, I didn't get within a country mile of calling Roni a kike.

Okay, once again, lets look at the sequence of posts...


1. Roni insults me:

Originally Posted by roni

I have said from the start that I will support the nominee of the Democratic Party. That remains the case. Other than that, you may not assume that I will do or support any other thing.

But then I have made that clear before, but you choose to ignore that in order to try to make your point, clumsy though your attempts may be.

2. I respond:

Originally Posted by StewartG

While I disagree with your assessment that my attempts to make my point are clumsy (although I understand the need to rationalize cognitive dissonance), I will point out to you the irony of your throwing out insults, given your indignation when insults (real or imagined) have been allegedly tossed at you in this thread. . . .

3. Roni, rather than acknowledge the insult, apologize, or whatever, decides to COMPOUND the insult, reaffirm it, and state that all of my arguments have always been and are expected to continue to be "clumsy."

Originally Posted by roni

StewartG,

I am so sorry you considered that an insult. I thought it was a rather generous description of your attempts, both past and continuing

I apologize for the unintended slight.

So when Roni refers to his calling my argument "clumsy" as being a "generous description of [my] attempts, both past and continuing" and then catagorizes this as an apology, surely you can see how I might have taken offense?

In response, I suggested he call me a "stupid f*cking kike" as a way to clearly make the point that, his "apology" was nothing more than a repeat and amplification of his prior insult.

As you can see, at no point did I do anything like call him a "stupid f*cking kike." Of course, it may have helped your understanding of the exchange to know that, of the two of us (Roni and I), I'm the jewish one.

[roni]

The race is tightening, no question about it," said Hunter Bacot, a poll director at Elon University, near Greensboro. "Considering what's happening with Rev. Wright, her recent victory in Pennsylvania and her courting of the white, blue-collar vote, [she's] really picking up steam."

Thad Beyle, a political science professor at UNC-Chapel Hill, agreed.

"Things are moving in her direction. And she's campaigning in places Democrats don't usually go. I got a call the other day from Haywood County in the mountains out west. It's real Republican country." The reporter couldn't figure out why Clinton was there, Beyle said.

Jim Hunt, a Democrat who served four nonconsecutive terms as governor and who has not endorsed anyone, said he didn't expect an upset. But he said he was surprised to see "limited-income whites" flood his polling place Friday in Wilson, in the eastern part of the state.

"A whole lot more white voters are coming out, at least in my district," he said. Clinton "has energized a lot of people to vote who would not otherwise vote."

Many here attribute that to her husband, former President Clinton, who has campaigned vigorously among rural and working families, especially in old mill towns yet to benefit from the new economy. He barnstormed nearly 50 towns and hamlets during the last month, and was scheduled to return for more today.

"Here he is, going from Apex to Fuquay-Varina to Dunn, spending hours at time, day after day, drumming up votes for his wife," marveled Ferrell Guillory, director of a public policy institute at UNC-Chapel Hill. "It's not just one speech a day. It's five or six. Can you imagine Ronald Reagan stumping for votes like that?"

North Carolina voters appear -- in droves - Los Angeles Times

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by StewartG

I did not call Roni a kike. Really, I didn't get within a country mile of calling Roni a kike.

Okay, once again, lets look at the sequence of posts...


1. Roni insults me:





2. I respond:





3. Roni, rather than acknowledge the insult, apologize, or whatever, decides to COMPOUND the insult, reaffirm it, and state that all of my arguments have always been and are expected to continue to be "clumsy."



So when Roni refers to his calling my argument "clumsy" as being a "generous description of [my] attempts, both past and continuing" and then catagorizes this as an apology, surely you can see how I might have taken offense?

In response, I suggested he call me a "stupid f*cking kike" as a way to clearly make the point that, his "apology" was nothing more than a repeat and amplification of his prior insult.

As you can see, at no point did I do anything like call him a "stupid f*cking kike." Of course, it may have helped your understanding of the exchange to know that, of the two of us (Roni and I), I'm the jewish one.

Hey...didn't I just say this? With a LOT fewer words? Damn attorneys!

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by roni

The race is tightening, no question about it," said Hunter Bacot, a poll director at Elon University, near Greensboro. "Considering what's happening with Rev. Wright, her recent victory in Pennsylvania and her courting of the white, blue-collar vote, [she's] really picking up steam."

Thad Beyle, a political science professor at UNC-Chapel Hill, agreed.

"Things are moving in her direction. And she's campaigning in places Democrats don't usually go. I got a call the other day from Haywood County in the mountains out west. It's real Republican country." The reporter couldn't figure out why Clinton was there, Beyle said.

Jim Hunt, a Democrat who served four nonconsecutive terms as governor and who has not endorsed anyone, said he didn't expect an upset. But he said he was surprised to see "limited-income whites" flood his polling place Friday in Wilson, in the eastern part of the state.

"A whole lot more white voters are coming out, at least in my district," he said. Clinton "has energized a lot of people to vote who would not otherwise vote."

Many here attribute that to her husband, former President Clinton, who has campaigned vigorously among rural and working families, especially in old mill towns yet to benefit from the new economy. He barnstormed nearly 50 towns and hamlets during the last month, and was scheduled to return for more today.

"Here he is, going from Apex to Fuquay-Varina to Dunn, spending hours at time, day after day, drumming up votes for his wife," marveled Ferrell Guillory, director of a public policy institute at UNC-Chapel Hill. "It's not just one speech a day. It's five or six. Can you imagine Ronald Reagan stumping for votes like that?"

North Carolina voters appear -- in droves - Los Angeles Times

I think this reporter may have a good point here.

I remain simply amazed that Obama is doing so well against BOTH the Clinton's along with Bill's very strong popularity amongst Democrat's and her seniority as a Senator and experience as a First Lady for 8 years and all.....

It is truly amazing that he continues to maintain his lead...despite all of that and all the class and race stuff that is being put out there....amazing!

[ryberg]

Back to get my own board on this one: a breakdown on how each candidate is doing with each type of superdelegate is actually on the DemConWatch site. Who woulda thunk it? Clinton's entire superdelegate lead is accounted for by unelected officials!



So let's see... Who do more governors favor? Obama. How about senators? Obama again. Members of the House? That would be Obama. But how 'about those "add-on" superdelegates, Steve? Obama, donchtaknow.

Which categories does Clinton win? Well, distinguished party leaders (DPL), where her husband and her campaign talking head Terry McAuliffe, who the Clintons made party chairman in the first place, if I'm not mistaken, some years ago, constitute half her lead.

And then? Well, what do you know? It's the unelected party honchos, of course, where she has a 27-superdelegate lead, enough to give her a 17-superdelegate lead over Obama, still, according to RCP's oft-cited tally.

So let's see, for a while there, she had a lead in overall delegates only because her lead in superdelegates helped make up for her trailing in pledged delegates chosen by voters. Now she maintains a lead among superdelegates only because her lead with unelected party honchos helps her make up for her trailing in terms of support from officials actually elected by voters.

Wow... No matter how you slice it, what Clinton seems to have is a voter problem!!!

Steve

[melliedee]

Me and my shiny new spoon.

Sorry to everyone I even brought this up. I was startled by the comment, but it's clear Roni and Stew understand each other's arguments and can handle it themselves without me putting my two cents in.

Carry on. Important political issues are raging while we fight over distractions. (That was for you, ryberg!)

[roni]

Originally Posted by Jacko

I think this reporter may have a good point here.

I remain simply amazed that Obama is doing so well against BOTH the Clinton's along with Bill's very strong popularity amongst Democrat's and her seniority as a Senator and experience as a First Lady for 8 years....
It is truly amazing that he continues to maintain his lead...despite all of that and all the class and race stuff that is being put out there....amazing!

Uh Jacko,

He has lost more than half his lead from 5 weeks ago.

You might want to check out the facts there before posting something like that.

I am uploading some graphs that I will post from real clear politics.



Here are the graph

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by roni

Uh Jacko,

He has lost more than half his lead from 5 weeks ago.

You might want to check out the facts there before posting something like that.

I am uploading some graphs that I will post from real clear politics.



Here are the graph

Isn't that exactly what happened to Hillary in Pa? Did Pa. hurt Hillary or help her? Hmmmmmmm

(and roni, it is ..well...er.....clumsy of you to assume I am not well acquainted with the facts before I speak)....

[blueton]

Originally Posted by StewartG

I did not call Roni a kike. Really, I didn't get within a country mile of calling Roni a kike.

Okay, once again, lets look at the sequence of posts...


1. Roni insults me:





2. I respond:





3. Roni, rather than acknowledge the insult, apologize, or whatever, decides to COMPOUND the insult, reaffirm it, and state that all of my arguments have always been and are expected to continue to be "clumsy."



So when Roni refers to his calling my argument "clumsy" as being a "generous description of [my] attempts, both past and continuing" and then catagorizes this as an apology, surely you can see how I might have taken offense?

In response, I suggested he call me a "stupid f*cking kike" as a way to clearly make the point that, his "apology" was nothing more than a repeat and amplification of his prior insult.

As you can see, at no point did I do anything like call him a "stupid f*cking kike." Of course, it may have helped your understanding of the exchange to know that, of the two of us (Roni and I), I'm the jewish one.

As I explained to Jacko that is not what I meant.


When I made that comment I was responding to this:

Calling my arguments "clumsy" was not intended to be insulting? Why not just call me a stupid f*cking kike and REALLY try to make nice!

Cleary, as you say above, you suggested he call you a "stupid f*cking kike". There is no disagreement here that that is what you said.

When I said the kike slur that you labelled against Roni I meant that you were suggesting it was a slur he might as well make - i.e. a slur you were therefore attributing to him (rather than directing at him).

Sorry, I should have worded that better.

It is still an offensive cheap shot though as other comments such as the chicken shit insult and that was what I was objecting to.

[blueton]

Originally Posted by melliedee

Me and my shiny new spoon.

Sorry to everyone I even brought this up. I was startled by the comment, but it's clear Roni and Stew understand each other's arguments and can handle it themselves without me putting my two cents in.

Carry on. Important political issues are raging while we fight over distractions. (That was for you, ryberg!)

what she said ..