USA Presidential Politics - 2008

[Just Lucky]

Originally Posted by roni

Senator Obama is doing the same, I assure you.

It is what researchers do. It is significant and,

Politics is a business of numbers.

But, I suspect you knew the answer when you asked the question and as John Prine wrote

"A question isn't really a question
When you know the answer too"

Maybe this snippet will make my point more clearly:

In another clear sign that the party is dividing along race, a pair of Democratic strategists engaged in an emotional exchange on national television. Donna Brazile, a black Democratic superdelegate who has remained neutral in the race, lashed out at Paul Begala, a white supporter of Clinton, as they commented on the race for CNN as votes were counted Tuesday night.
Begala said that Obama appealed only to the white elite. "We can't win with eggheads and African Americans," he said. Brazile ripped into him: "You insult every black blue-collar Democrat by saying that. So stop the divisions. Stop trying to split us into these groups, Paul."

Clinton and White Voters | The Trail | washingtonpost.com

[roni]

Originally Posted by Just Lucky

Maybe this snippet will make my point more clearly:

It is a different point.

Data are data.

Begala and Brazile are something different than data.

[Just Lucky]

[quote=roni;1117482][quote=Just Lucky;1117480]Maybe this snippet will make my point more clearly:

It is a different point.

Data are data.

Begala and Brazile are something different than data.

Seems to me they are essentially pundits involved not only with the party but also the media. I don't doubt that for research purposes the data has a need to exist merely suggesting there are other ways of looking at it. I find it strange that the other ways are not getting much attention in the media or apparently from Senator Clinton and her staff.

[mallen10]

Obama most certainly is not playing into the race card crap like Hillary is... She seems also to be misstating some facts too, Hillary lost some support of white voters in Indiana, if you compare it percentage wise to previous states.
One thing is for sure, without the black vote, there will not be a democratic president elected in November. Obama is pulling huge margins of black voters over Hillary, 91% in NC.

[roni]

[quote=Just Lucky;1117487][quote=roni;1117482]

Originally Posted by Just Lucky

Maybe this snippet will make my point more clearly:

Seems to me they are essentially pundits involved not only with the party but also the media. I don't doubt that for research purposes the data has a need to exist merely suggesting there are other ways of looking at it. I find it strange that the other ways are not getting much attention in the media or apparently from Senator Clinton and her staff.

The data does not have a need to exist - it merely exists.

[ryberg]

For my part, it is my strongly held conviction that losing the nomination or the general election but not turning to such tactics as encouraging old racial tensions and divisions, or those related to gender or immigration or whatever else, is better than doing those things in order to try and win (even if you do win, in the end).

Perhaps this view is naive.

Steve

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by roni

S*hit Jacko

I used to drink with the construction guys after I got off my 11-7 shift at the hospital when I was a college student.

I fully understand anti-elite stuff, I work among the elites and live in a mixed blue-collar, white-collar neighborhood. I am both, and solidly middle-class economically - one of those guys who is kinda prepared for disaster as long as it didn't last very long.

I don't doubt you one bit...but were you then talking cultural components, springing forth with socio-psychological connotations and data not needing to exist, but merely existing?

[Just Lucky]

[quote=roni;1117491][quote=Just Lucky;1117487]

Originally Posted by roni

The data does not have a need to exist - it merely exists.

If it exists at all it is because a pollster asked the race question right?

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by ryberg

For my part, it is my strongly held conviction that losing the nomination or the general election but not turning to such tactics as encouraging old racial tensions and divisions, or those related to gender or immigration or whatever else, is better than doing those things in order to try and win (even if you do win, in the end).

Perhaps this view is naive.

Steve

Riss might call that seeing things through rose-colored glasses.

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by roni

I think a good case can be made supporting that point of view. A real good case.

It is not the only case to be made, though I think it is the one that comes the closest to bringing a Democratic party victory.

The one I feel most attracted to is a Obama-Richarson ticket-of-color.

Get 70-75% of the combined African=American and Latino vote (25% of the electorate) and F*ck all the White Peoples

That is the one that feels most satisfying to me

Obama open to Clinton as possible running mate

"She is tireless, she is smart. She is capable. And so obviously she'd be on anybody's short list to be a potential vice presidential candidate," said Obama, who inched closer to winning the nomination by routing Clinton in North Carolina and almost defeating her in Indiana on Tuesday.

[mallen10]

It seems as if Hillary Clinton is saying that white, middle class workers are racist and won't vote for Obama over McCain.
Hillary just can't accept defeat. I wouldn't be surprised if Bill, privately to himself, hasn't accepted the fact that this thing is over. Did you folks see his face when he was standing behind her in Indiana on stage.
At what point does Bill say enough, is enough, and he shuts off all the private funds that they keep putting in her campaign. At this point they've borrowed 11.4 million from there joint personal accounts. And according to ABC, the Clinton campaign admits they are carrying a campaign debt of 10-15 million, but Stephnopolous (if thats spelled right), says that campaign debt is probally closer to double that, 25-30 million dollars in debt. Shouldn't the data convince them to use a little common sense and cut there losses. The data being the delegate count, popular vote count, the supers that have been switching.

[Daddy B]

Originally Posted by Jacko

Obama open to Clinton as possible running mate

"She is tireless, she is smart. She is capable. And so obviously she'd be on anybody's short list to be a potential vice presidential candidate," said Obama, who inched closer to winning the nomination by routing Clinton in North Carolina and almost defeating her in Indiana on Tuesday.

After all that Obama Girl has done for him...

[StewartG]

For all those who have alleged sexism and misogyny in this thread, I feel I am compelled to respond as follows:

Originally Posted by Daddy B

After all that Obama Girl has done for him...

Obama Girl for VP? Mmmmm... Talk about the "body politic!"

[melliedee]

Good morning!

I think this latest statement on race by Clinton is going to backfire, not only among working class people of color, but the very white folks she means to appeal to. And why throw in the "uneducated" part, as if not having gone to college is tied to their allegiance to the Clintons? The numbers may indeed support such statements, but that doesn't mean voters won't take umbrage to being grouped in the way Brazille has pointed out is counterproductive to uniting the party.

Btw, have we heard our first ageist comment with Obama's claim that McCain is "losing his bearings?" I don't think so; losing your bearings can happen at any age...

[melliedee]

Leave it to The Onion to put political correctness in perspective for us...

As of press time, the two additional phrases still considered appropriate for candidates are the often-quoted "These pancakes are great," and "Death to the infidels.

Number Of Acceptable Things Candidates Can Say Now Down To Four | The Onion - America's Finest News Source