USA Presidential Politics - 2008

[ryberg]

Originally Posted by SunKneeMarie

what did you do for your kids in school? thinking back to 19 and 12 and 11 years ago, I can't remember if "other" was an option... or if you could leave it blank... your kids are younger... what did your schools require in the states?

Well our son only started school in the U.S. last fall, you know, and our daughter has only just been registered to start kindergarten this coming fall, so we didn't have this experience before.

It's rather disturbing, however, to come back to your home country and see that there's more focus on race and more rigid attitudes about such things than there were in our lives in Mexico, for example. At least in institutions like the schools. People cannot seem to grasp the problem in answering those category questions with respect to our children, when the category is "white, non-Hispanic". These two must be separate entities, you know. And that's not even to take up the question of why they're always asking. We were never asked anything like this in Mexico, not to my knowledge, at least. Citizenship and language(s) spoken, but not racial/ethnic background.

Even something simple like naming. It's just inexcusable in this day and age that so many Americans cannot get their minds around as simple an idea as that a child might have 2 family names, in keeping with Spanish language cultures, and that the last one in the order might not be considered the principal one. This is not rocket science. Yet people continue to ask, in earnest, OK, but which one is the LAST name? People are not even grasping the fact that the word last has more than one meaning, in that context, or that there could possibly be culturally different practices with respect to naming. Then they take it upon themselves to insert a hyphen and name my kids something else -- Ryberg-González -- or they take it upon themselves to switch the order, to "correct" the "problem" of the principal family name not being the last name, or they ignore the entire issue, as if we'd never talked about it, and call me "Mr González" and so on.

If we were a tiny, insular nation somewhere in a remote corner of the world with no Latino population, that'd be a different story. But given our real situation and history and population, it's inexcusable not to know or be able to understand these things.

Steve

[StewartG]

My typical response to the race question on any form (about myself or my kids) is to simply do a "write in" response:

HUMAN

[SunKneeMarie]

Originally Posted by ryberg

Well our son only started school in the U.S. last fall, you know, and our daughter has only just been registered to start kindergarten this coming fall, so we didn't have this experience before.

It's rather disturbing, however, to come back to your home country and see that there's more focus on race and more rigid attitudes about such things than there were in our lives in Mexico, for example. At least in institutions like the schools. People cannot seem to grasp the problem in answering those category questions with respect to our children, when the category is "white, non-Hispanic". These two must be separate entities, you know. And that's not even to take up the question of why they're always asking. We were never asked anything like this in Mexico, not to my knowledge, at least. Citizenship and language(s) spoken, but not racial/ethnic background.

Even something simple like naming. It's just inexcusable in this day and age that so many Americans cannot get their minds around as simple an idea as that a child might have 2 family names, in keeping with Spanish language cultures, and that the last one in the order might not be considered the principal one. This is not rocket science. Yet people continue to ask, in earnest, OK, but which one is the LAST name? People are not even grasping the fact that the word last has more than one meaning, in that context, or that there could possibly be culturally different practices with respect to naming. Then they take it upon themselves to insert a hyphen and name my kids something else -- Ryberg-González -- or they take it upon themselves to switch the order, to "correct" the "problem" of the principal family name not being the last name, or they ignore the entire issue, as if we'd never talked about it, and call me "Mr González" and so on.

If we were a tiny, insular nation somewhere in a remote corner of the world with no Latino population, that'd be a different story. But given our real situation and history and population, it's inexcusable not to know or be able to understand these things.

Steve

yes, that white-non hispanic... white is the race, hispanic is the ethnicity... unless something has changed ? why does it need to be broken down....

people haven't heard of hyphenated last names? I did a lot of inputting for a committee I was on and there were quite a few hyphenates... one I know was due to a girl whose mother got remarried and after a few years she was adopted by the stepfather and asked for both names... have no idea what the situation was on the others, but I never thought it was odd

Originally Posted by StewartG

My typical response to the race question on any form (about myself or my kids) is to simply do a "write in" response:

HUMAN

methinks you get lumped into "other" after the form is turned in

(and really, while that is a lovely sentiment, I have to wonder how this worked out when you filled out their birth certificates...??)

[roni]

It is changing even more in the near future

Now, in a separate table for Hispanic/Latino, there will be all the racial categories - so you could be Hispanic-Native American, Hispanic-Black, Hispanic-Asian etc....

So, Hispanic is the ethnicity, under which there can be a variety of races
The other ethnicity is non-Hispanic

What's a Mayan to do who may not consider herself Hispanic, or a Purepechan, for example?

[ryberg]

Originally Posted by roni

It is changing even more in the near future

Now, in a separate table for Hispanic/Latino, there will be all the racial categories - so you could be Hispanic-Native American, Hispanic-Black, Hispanic-Asian etc....

So, Hispanic is the ethnicity, under which there can be a variety of races
The other ethnicity is non-Hispanic

What's a Mayan to do who may not consider herself Hispanic, or a Purepechan, for example?

Sounds like this would persist in leaving no place for my children, half American of a basically Anglo/Caucasian background and have Latinos/Hispanic.

Steve

[SunKneeMarie]

Originally Posted by ryberg

Sounds like this would persist in leaving no place for my children, half American of a basically Anglo/Caucasian background and have Latinos/Hispanic.

Steve

would they have Hispanic-White, or would they consider that redundant?

[StephenB]

These race and ethnicity debacles can be directly traced to our overzealous attempts at political correctness. We want to be sensitive and caring and unoffensive. Instead we have become just the opposite.

[ryberg]

I think it's just poor thinking and poor execution. Why does the selection have to exclusive, for example? Just list the most common options andsay "check all that apply."

Steve

[Mogley]

[STOGEY]

Originally Posted by MaripositaII

Neither am I, but I wonder why to date, we have never had a female VP (or President). Still not qualified enough I

guess...

You know how it is. When you're in a institution filled with women for over an extended period of time. When one of them starrts their monthly withing a short period of time they're all on it.

So if Hillary for some chance were to be elected and she started her monthly. In about a week all the women folk in this country would be on it. They'd be complete caos I tell ya.

[melliedee]

Originally Posted by STOGEY

You know how it is. When you're in a institution filled with women for over an extended period of time. When one of them starrts their monthly withing a short period of time they're all on it.

So if Hillary for some chance were to be elected and she started her monthly. In about a week all the women folk in this country would be on it. They'd be complete caos I tell ya.

OMG! Stogey, you're right. I think maybe even men will catch The Curse. I've heard it is contagious.

[roni]

Originally Posted by StephenB

These race and ethnicity debacles can be directly traced to our overzealous attempts at political correctness. We want to be sensitive and caring and unoffensive. Instead we have become just the opposite.

That is not it at all.

It is the desire of the Congress to collect data, in the case of higher education. So, it is political, but nothing to do with the political correctness bogeyman, which is just a conservative term for let us bash the liberals some.

[SunKneeMarie]

The political correctness some might be referring to is that we use certain terminology over others. In this case, I don't think it's political correctness because, to me, to be politically correct would be to NOT ask at all what a person's background is. I can't think of anything less politically correct than to come up to someone and say, "What ARE you, anyway?" which is what these boxes feel like to me. I'm not sure what the curiosity is every time I fill out a form as to what my parentage is.

[ryberg]

Originally Posted by SunKneeMarie

The political correctness some might be referring to is that we use certain terminology over others. In this case, I don't think it's political correctness because, to me, to be politically correct would be to NOT ask at all what a person's background is. I can't think of anything less politically correct than to come up to someone and say, "What ARE you, anyway?" which is what these boxes feel like to me. I'm not sure what the curiosity is every time I fill out a form as to what my parentage is.

Thank you.

And now for something completely different: hilarious Colbert clips of Bill O'Reilly -- and then Colbert -- blowing up. All here.

Steve

[StephenB]

Originally Posted by roni

That is not it at all.

It is the desire of the Congress to collect data, in the case of higher education. So, it is political, but nothing to do with the political correctness bogeyman, which is just a conservative term for let us bash the liberals some.

Crapola. True, it is the desire to collect data, and not just for higher education. Is it Hispanic or Latino? White or Caucasian? Asian or Oriental? Native American or American Indian? Black or African American? Politics aside, we are a nation of overly politically correct minorities. We are all minorities in one way or the other and have gotten to the point of ridiculousness when it comes to prying into a persons race and ethnicity. That's my opinion.