USA Presidential Politics - 2008

[roni]

Originally Posted by melliedee

David Gergen (not Steve!).

I agree about party unity, and Obama was making good strides toward that in his speech last night.

I thought both the candidates made good strides about that last night. I hoped for half a second that Obama's non-Democrat supporter here would approach Obama's respectful and admiring words about Hillary, but then chuckled and thought, "Nah, no way."

[horizon200]

Originally Posted by roni

People in the USA should vote for whatever candidate they want to for whatever reason they want to. Period. End of Story.

This is the United States of America.

From every mountainside let freedom ring.

I do believe they wrote a song similar to that!

[roni]

Originally Posted by horizon200

I do believe they wrote a song similar to that!

It is so widely known I felt no need for a footnote
Did I err?

Text: Samuel F. Smith, 1808-1895
Music: Thesaurus Musicus

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by roni

People in the USA should vote for whatever candidate they want to for whatever reason they want to. Period. End of Story.

This is the United States of America.

From every mountainside let freedom ring.

Did someone here suggest otherwise?

[horizon200]

Originally Posted by roni

It is so widely known I felt no need for a footnote
Did I err?

Text: Samuel F. Smith, 1808-1895
Music: Thesaurus Musicus

Maybe among our generation it is!

I think this is more of what the youth think of when they hear let "Freedom Ring" While not a bad message, it is the other end of the musical spectrum

Pretty Poison..Let Freedom Ring

[roni]

Originally Posted by horizon200

Maybe among our generation it is!

I think this is more of what the youth think of when they hear let "Freedom Ring" While not a bad message, it is the other end of the musical spectrum

Pretty Poison..Let Freedom Ring

[Jacko]

Barack's letter to me yesterday....(we are quite the buds, he and I)


Jack --

The polls are closed in Kentucky and votes are being counted in Oregon, and it's clear that tonight we have reached a major milestone on this journey.

We have won an absolute majority of all the delegates chosen by the people in this Democratic primary process.

From the beginning, this journey wasn't about me or the other candidates. It was about a simple choice -- will we continue down the same road with the same leadership that has failed us for so long, or will we take a different path?

Too many of us have been disappointed by politics and politicians more times than you can count. We've seen promises broken and good ideas drowned in a sea of influence, point-scoring, and petty bickering that has consumed Washington.

Yet, in spite of all the doubt and disappointment -- or perhaps because of it -- people have stood for change.

Unfortunately, our opponents in the other party continue to embrace yesterday's policies and they will continue to employ yesterday's tactics -- they will try to change the subject, and they will play on fears and divisions to distract us from what matters to you and your future.

But those tactics will not work in this election.

They won't work because you won't let them.

Not this time. Not this year.

We still have work to do to in the remaining states, where we will compete for every delegate available.

But tonight, I want to thank you for everything you have done to take us this far -- farther than anyone predicted, expected, or even believed possible.

And I want to remind you that you will make all the difference in the epic challenge ahead.

Thank you,

Barack Obama

[melliedee]

Originally Posted by Jacko

Did someone here suggest otherwise?

I'll let Steve answer as to if he agrees with Gergen. Do you? Here's the original post:

David Gergen just said that the racism evident in some of the voting and polls and so forth raises the question of whether Clinton shouldn't say outright, I don't want your vote if that's why you're voting against Obama.

Then the panel rather agreed with him, noting that this would be great for her reputation and future and do a lot of good for the party.

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by melliedee

I'll let Steve answer as to if he agrees with Gergen. Do you? Here's the original post:

But Gergen didn't mention anything about what he thought Obama should do...perhaps he felt Obama was doing a better job in this regard overall? I mean, I watched Hillary at the Pennsylvania debates...she had may opportunities to take higher ground on what seemed to me like some very unreasonable issues...she stood silent...OTOH, when given the opportunity, I believe that Barack took much higher ground against the inferences regarding Hillary and Bosnia...perhaps some of this history is why some folks are encouraging Hillary to do better? I mean it is still okay to have an opinion and to say that one candidate is doing better (or worse) than the other, right? I mean Gergen, not Steve.

[melliedee]

Originally Posted by Jacko

But Gergen didn't mention anything about what he thought Obama should do...perhaps he felt Obama was doing a better job in this regard overall? I mean, I watched Hillary at the Pennsylvania debates...she had may opportunities to take higher ground on what seemed to me like some very unreasonable issues...she stood silent...OTOH, when given the opportunity, I believe that Barack took much higher ground against the inferences regarding Hillary and Bosnia...perhaps some of this history is why some folks are encouraging Hillary to do better? I mean it is still okay to have an opinion and to say that one candidate is doing better (or worse) than the other, right? I mean Gergen, not Steve.

I sure hope so. While I think Obama has run a much better campaign, I think the suggestion by Gergen should extend to both candidates.

The implications are too important. Is he saying that Obama got stomped in KY because it's filled with a bunch of racists who would never vote for a person of color? Sure, there are some of them, and it is to those voters that I think Gergen is suggesting Clinton make such a statement. But how far does it go?

Should Obama address voters in Oregon, saying, "don't vote for me because you are an overeducated elitist who can smell warmed over populism from a mile away?" Should Clinton tell women over 50, "look, I realize that you identify with me and my struggle, but get your priorities straight. I want your vote for the right reasons, and sisterhood ain't one of them."

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by melliedee

I sure hope so. While I think Obama has run a much better campaign, I think the suggestion by Gergen should extend to both candidates.

The implications are too important. Is he saying that Obama got stomped in KY because it's filled with a bunch of racists who would never vote for a person of color? Sure, there are some of them, and it is to those voters that I think Gergen is suggesting Clinton make such a statement. But how far does it go?

Should Obama address voters in Oregon, saying, "don't vote for me because you are an overeducated elitist who can smell warmed over populism from a mile away?" Should Clinton tell women over 50, "look, I realize that you identify with me and my struggle, but get your priorities straight. I want your vote for the right reasons, and sisterhood ain't one of them."

My suggestion is that Clinton needs to do a much better job of taking higher ground and that Obama is doing a much better job of doing just that...perhaps that is what Gergen is saying as well...perhaps not.

[ryberg]

Wow, I didn't mean to start a firestorm here or anything, just relaying what seemed to be an interesting comment! It was moving, too, that moment, if anyone saw it. I mean it was the typical scene with about five analysts and a moderator and lots of action and so on, but suddenly everything came down and you could see from the look on Gergen's face and hear from the quiet and suddenly sort of halting tone that this was something he was truly concerned about in terms of the good of the country, not just politics or strategy or whatever.

I'll see if I can't find just what it was that he said, first of all...

Steve

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by ryberg

Wow, I didn't mean to start a firestorm here or anything, just relaying what seemed to be an interesting comment! It was moving, too, that moment, if anyone saw it. I mean it was the typical scene with about five analysts and a moderator and lots of action and so on, but suddenly everything came down and you could see from the look on Gergen's face and hear from the quiet and suddenly sort of halting tone that this was something he was truly concerned about in terms of the good of the country, not just politics or strategy or whatever.

I'll see if I can't find just what it was that he said, first of all...

Steve

Oh SURE you didn't!

[roni]

There have been several times during the history of this thread when several participants have suggested that there were various reasons for making voting decisions that were more legitimate than other reasons - and - in my memory - suggested that there were reasons that were not at all legitimate.

At one point Ryberg indicated sympathy with Mark's view that there were, perhaps, people who we'd all be better off if they did not vote. Ryberg did not go so far as to agree with that position, but expressed, as I recall, understanding of and sympathy with it.

This is all from memory, and I am not going to do a search, but there have been multiple happenings of this basic discussion on this thread.

[horizon200]

Originally Posted by Jacko

Barack's letter to me yesterday....(we are quite the buds, he and I)


Jack --

The polls are closed in Kentucky and votes are being counted in Oregon, and it's clear that tonight we have reached a major milestone on this journey.

We have won an absolute majority of all the delegates chosen by the people in this Democratic primary process.

From the beginning, this journey wasn't about me or the other candidates. It was about a simple choice -- will we continue down the same road with the same leadership that has failed us for so long, or will we take a different path?

Too many of us have been disappointed by politics and politicians more times than you can count. We've seen promises broken and good ideas drowned in a sea of influence, point-scoring, and petty bickering that has consumed Washington.

Yet, in spite of all the doubt and disappointment -- or perhaps because of it -- people have stood for change.

Unfortunately, our opponents in the other party continue to embrace yesterday's policies and they will continue to employ yesterday's tactics -- they will try to change the subject, and they will play on fears and divisions to distract us from what matters to you and your future.

But those tactics will not work in this election.

They won't work because you won't let them.

Not this time. Not this year.

We still have work to do to in the remaining states, where we will compete for every delegate available.

But tonight, I want to thank you for everything you have done to take us this far -- farther than anyone predicted, expected, or even believed possible.

And I want to remind you that you will make all the difference in the epic challenge ahead.

Thank you,

Barack Obama

Surprisingly similar statements:

I'm not interested in partisanship that serves no other purpose than to gain a temporary advantage over our opponents. This mindless, paralyzing rancor must come to an end. We belong to different parties, not different countries... There is a time to campaign, and a time to govern. If I'm elected president, the era of the permanent campaign will end; the era of problem-solving will begin.