USA Presidential Politics - 2008

[ryberg]

WARNING: The following contains information posted on a so-called "blog",
in this case connected to something calling itself "The New York Times".

Obama Convenes National Security Team

Senator Obama’s Senior Working Group on National Security:

• Secretary of State Madeleine Albright
• Senator David Boren, former Chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence
• Secretary of State Warren Christopher
• Greg Craig, former director of the State Department Office of Policy Planning
• Secretary of the Navy Richard Danzig
• Representative Lee Hamilton, former Chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee
• Deputy Attorney General Eric Holder
• Dr. Tony Lake, former National Security Adviser
• Senator Sam Nunn, former Chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee.
• Secretary of Defense William Perry
• Dr. Susan Rice, former Assistant Secretary of State
• Representative Tim Roemer, 9/11 Commissioner
• Jim Steinberg, former Deputy National Security Adviser

For what it may be worth!

Steve

[sctx]

Originally Posted by ryberg

WARNING: The following contains information posted on a so-called "blog",
in this case connected to something calling itself "The New York Times".

For what it may be worth!

Steve

he needs to can Maddie Dimlight or I surely won't vote for him....... what a disaster

[StewartG]

Originally Posted by sctx

nope, not in my house

So says the "moderate."

(I knew what you were doing of course... Its a well known slight used by the righties - Limbaugh, Hannity, etc. All the right wing Republicans I know refer to the Democracts the same way. Even those that claim to be "moderates.")

[StewartG]

Originally Posted by sctx

If you wanna generalize, racism is generally based in the under educated/low socioeconomic population, not the college educated/affluent base. . .

Really? How many of those blue collar lower SES folks did you see lining up at the Texas GOP convention where those buttons were being sold, anyway?

[sctx]

Originally Posted by StewartG

So says the "moderate."

moderate???.....wtf dude??........ I'm a liberal becuz I firmly believe in tax cuts for me

[sctx]

Originally Posted by StewartG

Really? How many of those blue collar lower SES folks did you see lining up at the Texas GOP convention where those buttons were being sold, anyway?

two ???

[ryberg]

Originally Posted by StewartG

P.S. I think its referred to as the "Democratic" party, no?

Originally Posted by sctx

nope, not in my house

I sympathize with that, linguistically speaking.

Originally Posted by sctx

If you wanna generalize, racism is generally based in the under educated/low socioeconomic population, not the college educated/affluent base. Where I see racism most evident today is in the black and hispanic communities, both distrustful of each other. And if you want to throw in the illegal immigration "racists", the typical scream there is " F'n Mexicans are takin our jobs"........ who's jobs are they taking??? Certainly not mine our my friends who have some degree of formal education, no, the jobs being taken are entry level or trade jobs.... again, typically based in the lower education/socioeconomic population, many of the screamers being union trades people......... so, what you're saying is that the Republican party is somehow now viewed as the champion of these people???.......... sorry Stew, I'm not buying that, the Democrat party is steeped in racism, both historically and in the present

I don't sympathize a whole lot with that analysis, however, I'm sorry to say.

I think there's a whole lot of racism still in this country in much "higher" levels of society than you describe there, for one thing, whether you're talking education or socio-economic or both. I think a great deal of this racism is not of the obvious "F'n Mexicans are takin our jobs" variety, as you put it (translate as necessary to other race situations, of course), but of the more subtle, under the radar type. This could be the willingness of non-black people to buy into ridiculous claims about Obama, for example, and pass on those emails about him, and ignore the contradiction of believing he's Muslim when his biggest scandal is all about his Christian church. Or it could be the same people asking, If he becomes president, will he promote policies favoring black people over white people?, when it never occurs to them to ask of white candidates, If Clinton becomes president, will she promote policies that favor women over men? or If McCain becomes president, will he promote policies that favor old white men over everybody else?

Apart from that, I also have the impression that that "blacks v Latinos" CW is about as reliable and accurate as most other CW you run into, which is to say it's handy and easy to digest and conveniently fits many people's preconceptions and is just wrong. The fact that furthering such a line would nicely serve the purposes of non-minority folks wishing to hedge against losing any more power than they already have just makes me more suspicious of it.

Then there is the fact that you don't find, on links like that one Mr C posted, any racist buttons being presented by people with "Democrat" in their name or marketed towards Democrats.

Or the dearth of any high-level black Republican officials.

It kinda goes on and on... Unfortunately.

Steve

[melliedee]

Originally Posted by ryberg

Then there is the fact that you don't find, on links like that one Mr C posted, any racist buttons being presented by people with "Democrat" in their name or marketed towards Democrats.

Steve

Personally, I think they are marketed toward both parties. Again, I know a few good ole boy Ohio Dems who would find delight in that button.

This election is going to be like a centuries old boil. Each group will have their hot pokers, testing the delicate skin of tolerance. Painful, but actually quite necessary. Maybe even healthy for all the historical ills it while bring to the surface? It can only make us as a country grow, become more honest about our own prejudices...

[sctx]

Originally Posted by ryberg

Apart from that, I also have the impression that that "blacks v Latinos" CW is about as reliable and accurate as most other CW you run into, which is to say it's handy and easy to digest and conveniently fits many people's preconceptions and is just wrong.

it's not wrong, it's very prevalent........ I see it on a daily basis...... well, assuming I'm not stuck in the office all day, other wise, I'm on the construction sites interacting with these types. I assume you'd e further shocked to hear me say that when I am subjected to the word "wet" or "wetback" it is from a hispanic American, not a white American...... And your "under the radar" racism is bogus as it disregards the fact that simple personality differences result in biased responses, and it more than likely has no relation at all to skin color

[melliedee]

Originally Posted by sctx

it's not wrong, it's very prevalent........ I see it on a daily basis...... well, assuming I'm not stuck in the office all day, other wise, I'm on the construction sites interacting with these types. I assume you'd e further shocked to hear me say that when I am subjected to the word "wet" or "wetback" it is from a hispanic American, not a white American...... And your "under the radar" racism is bogus as it disregards the fact that simple personality differences result in biased responses, and it more than likely has no relation at all to skin color

Dude, you've become so serious since you cut your hair. Can we go back to the part where I'm "refreshing?"

Go on...

[sctx]

Originally Posted by melliedee

Dude, you've become so serious since you cut your hair. Can we go back to the part where I'm "refreshing?"

Go on...

....... I think it more due to the stress of havin 30 some people showin up at my house this weekend to drink tequila and cause random drunken destruction that is generally associated with 20 year olds .......... tomorrow, I'll have to warn my 3 neighbors about the party...... gotta tell them if we get too loud, they'd might as well come on over and drink with us

[ryberg]

You don't think racial prejudices play a role even if we don't see them being expressed or being visible on the surface?

Steve

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by melliedee

What a great tribute to Russert on MSNBC.

I am still whimpering from the Meet the Press show on Sunday...

[sctx]

Originally Posted by ryberg

You don't think racial prejudices play a role even if we don't see them being expressed or being visible on the surface?

Steve

no, I'm saying what you perceive to be "racial" can very likely be a bias based on differing personalities ...... do you "get along" with every white person you meet???

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by sctx

....... I think it more due to the stress of havin 30 some people showin up at my house this weekend to drink tequila and cause random drunken destruction that is generally associated with 20 year olds .......... tomorrow, I'll have to warn my 3 neighbors about the party...... gotta tell them if we get too loud, they'd might as well come on over and drink with us

Ya big wimp!