What do ya think?

[dartay]

Originally Posted by TAPPY

That is the point I was trying to make as well. The system sucks !!!

The system is what it is. Just because it's flawed doesn't mean it sucks.

Can we do better, the answer is yes. And we should.

But that doesn't give anyone the right to break our laws.

[TAPPY]

Originally Posted by dartay

The system is what it is. Just because it's flawed doesn't mean it sucks.

Can we do better, the answer is yes. And we should.

But that doesn't give anyone the right to break our laws.

It sucks !! for everyone involved !!!

[dartay]

Originally Posted by TAPPY

Of course not, but you made a very judgemental comment in my opinion "they got what they deserved" !!! Pretty broad statement in my opinion. You dont know these people do you ? Do they really deserve to get seperated from their children ?
If you ever get into a situation where you have to do something drastic to take care of your family/children and you got in trouble it would be kind of shallow for some one to say - you got what you deserved without knowing you.

I don't have to know these people. I do know that most illegals are good people, but that still doesn't give them the right to break the rules. And teach their kids to break the rules. And to show others in their country that it's OK to break the rules.

The short answer IMO, is yes they deserve to be separated from their children. They knowingly broke the laws, whatever moral ground you or they want to hold, it's not OK to just ignore it.

Go anywhere else and break their labor laws and see what you get. No matter if your family is starving or not.

[Luv2Dance]

Originally Posted by dartay

I don't have to know these people. I do know that most illegals are good people, but that still doesn't give them the right to break the rules. And teach their kids to break the rules. And to show others in their country that it's OK to break the rules.

The short answer IMO, is yes they deserve to be separated from their children. They knowingly broke the laws, whatever moral ground you or they want to hold, it's not OK to just ignore it.

Go anywhere else and break their labor laws and see what you get. No matter if your family is starving or not.

Where would you suggest the children go when they are taken from their parents? Be wards of the state thus costing us more money. If they are children of "working parents" in the United States that is still better then the poor children sitting at home with their reject welfare parents smoking crack on our dime.

[travmagic]

I just think the illigal immigrants want to have their cake and eat it too!
They think they should be entitled to all the good things the US has to offer
but have no obligations to the US.

[dartay]

Originally Posted by Luv2Dance

Where would you suggest the children go when they are taken from their parents? Be wards of the state thus costing us more money. If they are children of "working parents" in the United States that is still better then the poor children sitting at home with their reject welfare parents smoking crack on our dime.

They should of course be allowed to go with their parents.

That's why this is not perfect. But to allow anyone to break the law and then say "aw it's OK you've got children" doesn't help. That thinking says a criminals who break the law get a pass if they have kids.

The 14th amendment, which in effect gave children born on US soil citizenship, was passed to allow the children of the freed slaves citizenship.

This should be immediately changed and there are bills in front of Congress to do so. A child born here should have the same status as the mother

[Luv2Dance]

Originally Posted by dartay

They should of course be allowed to go with their parents.

That's why this is not perfect. But to allow anyone to break the law and then say "aw it's OK you've got children" doesn't help. That thinking says a criminals who break the law get a pass if they have kids.

The 14th amendment, which in effect gave children born on US soil citizenship, was passed to allow the children of the freed slaves citizenship.

This should be immediately changed and there are bills in front of Congress to do so. A child born here should have the same status as the mother

So where do the parents go when they are busted for living here and working illegaly? Maybe I missed an earlier post.

[dartay]

Originally Posted by Luv2Dance

So where do the parents go when they are busted for living here and working illegaly? Maybe I missed an earlier post.

In this case, as it should be with all, the parents were incarcerated until deportation hearings could be arranged.

Here in Texas we have an old prison that is used for such cases. The children are allowed to stay there with their parents in a non-inclosed state, until deportation hearings are arranged. The facility has medical and schooling along with recreational equipment. The only thing is that they are not allowed to leave. The liberals are steaming becuase they believe it is tantamount to keeping kids in lockup - which it's not. I think it's a more compassionate way to handle it, instead of putting them into the foster care system.

Nothing is perfect. We can do a better job with immigrants, both legal and illegal. But giving them a pass isn't the answer.

Your point about kids with crackhead parents is well taken. I have no tolerance for that situation either and it directly affects my family. Both my wife's half-brother and half-sister have had their children taken away because they can't keep off drugs. And that's as it should be - they are both idiots. The court wouldn't allow us to keep the kids (because of indian issues) or I'd have all 4 of them gladly.

[Luv2Dance]

Originally Posted by dartay

In this case, as it should be with all, the parents were incarcerated until deportation hearings could be arranged.

Here in Texas we have an old prison that is used for such cases. The children are allowed to stay there with their parents in a non-inclosed state, until deportation hearings are arranged. The facility has medical and schooling along with recreational equipment. The only thing is that they are not allowed to leave. The liberals are steaming becuase they believe it is tantamount to keeping kids in lockup - which it's not. I think it's a more compassionate way to handle it, instead of putting them into the foster care system.

Nothing is perfect. We can do a better job with immigrants. But giving them a pass isn't the answer.

Your point about kids with crackhead parents is well taken. I have no tolerance for that situation either and it directly affects my family. Both my wife's half-brother and half-sister have had their children taken away because they can't keep off drugs. And that's as it should be - they are both idiots. The court wouldn't allow us to keep the kids (because of indian issues) or I'd have all 4 of them gladly.

The words Prison and Non enclosed state don't go together IMO. I agree the children should be with the parents in that circumstance but you have to wonder what the facilities are really like and the exact meaning is behind the classification of non enclosed.

I admire you for wanting to take care of your h-brother and h-sister's children. It is such a shame when people chose their selfish ways before their own flesh and blood.

[dartay]

Originally Posted by Luv2Dance

The words Prison and Non enclosed state don't go together IMO. I agree the children should be with the parents in that circumstance but you have to wonder what the facilities are really like and the exact meaning is behind the classification of non enclosed.

I admire you for wanting to take care of your h-brother and h-sister's children. It is such a shame when people chose their selfish ways before their own flesh and blood.

It's actually quite nice. You can't hide the fact that it used to be a prison but there are no locks on the cells anymore. The only thing locked is the outer gate.

Saying that, I'm sure if you're there it's not so nice just from the fact that you can't leave.

There was just a big stink made about it in the local media because of a group of middle eastern immigrants who were here illegally and were sent there. From the pictures it definately wasn't prison-like, though you obviously can't hide the fact that it had been at one time. Allowing the kids to stay there with the mother IMO is a better solution. The law can be upheld and the families affected don't have to be split.

[Luv2Dance]

Originally Posted by dartay

It's actually quite nice. You can't hide the fact that it used to be a prison but there are no locks on the cells anymore. The only thing locked is the outer gate.

Saying that, I'm sure if you're there it's not so nice just from the fact that you can't leave.

There was just a big stink made about it in the local media because of a group of middle eastern immigrants who were here illegally and were sent there. From the pictures it definately wasn't prison-like, though you obviously can't hide the fact that it had been at one time. Allowing the kids to stay there with the mother IMO is a better solution. The law can be upheld and the families affected don't have to be split.

Thank you for taking the time to fill me in.

[PlayadelSoul]

The system absolutlely does suck. The workers that the US needs are the exact same workers that cannot afford to migrate legally. It is an expensive and time-consuming process, and is not set up to accomodate the immediate needs of American businesses. If you need work in order to feed your family, you sure as hell don't have the time or money necessary to find an immigration lawyer, make multiple trips to a consulate, fill out stacks of paperwork and wait up to a year for an answer.

The vast majority of these people are not taking a job away from an American. the current unemployment rate is 4.5% and, from memory of my economics classes in college, full employment is considered 4%. So, what happens when you kick out all the illegals?

There is a better way, as Tappy mentioned. The US has enough problems with Latin America. It doesn't need to add to those problems by shooting itself in the foot, in the process. Those that feel they are being robbed by illegals using services, ought to take a look at how much they would be paying for goods, services and taxes if it weren't for those illegals. Its like kicking yourself in the nuts because your toe itches.

Raiding companies to give the appearance of "doing something" is nothing short of retarded. Separating kids from their parents is just plain spiteful. Shame on whoever is responsible.

There is one area where the Congress and President agree. They should stop playing games long enough to pass immigration reform. Not build a fence, but do something that benefits everyone. Kicking illegals out of the country benefits no one. It may please a few people who have no concept of economics, but the rest of us have to suffer for that?

[vieve]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

The vast majority of these people are not taking a job away from an American. the current unemployment rate is 4.5% and, from memory of my economics classes in college, full employment is considered 4%. So, what happens when you kick out all the illegals?

Raiding companies to give the appearance of "doing something" is nothing short of retarded. Separating kids from their parents is just plain spiteful. Shame on whoever is responsible.

There is one area where the Congress and President agree. They should stop playing games long enough to pass immigration reform. Not build a fence, but do something that benefits everyone. Kicking illegals out of the country benefits no one. It may please a few people who have no concept of economics, but the rest of us have to suffer for that?

I completely agree w/you on this. Nothing would run in major cities in the Northeast if we got rid of the illegals. As for the unemployment rate, we have major companies recruiting on our campus and hardly any one interested in interviewing with them. The trend right now with students is to continue on with graduate school and delay reality as long as possible- actually pretty smart, if you can afford to do it.

[PlayadelSoul]

Originally Posted by travmagic

I just think the illigal immigrants want to have their cake and eat it too!
They think they should be entitled to all the good things the US has to offer
but have no obligations to the US.

Illegal immigrants pay millions of dollars into Social Security and Medicare. It is money that they will never see again. Social Security and Medicare are the two largest suckers of money in the country. If you take out the money that illegals contribute, these programs are going to go broke, real quick. Try telling your parents that their check won't be coming because you couldn't handle some Mexican working in a job that no one else would do.

[kwagner99]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

The system absolutlely does suck. The workers that the US needs are the exact same workers that cannot afford to migrate legally. It is an expensive and time-consuming process, and is not set up to accomodate the immediate needs of American businesses. If you need work in order to feed your family, you sure as hell don't have the time or money necessary to find an immigration lawyer, make multiple trips to a consulate, fill out stacks of paperwork and wait up to a year for an answer.

The vast majority of these people are not taking a job away from an American. the current unemployment rate is 4.5% and, from memory of my economics classes in college, full employment is considered 4%. So, what happens when you kick out all the illegals?

There is a better way, as Tappy mentioned. The US has enough problems with Latin America. It doesn't need to add to those problems by shooting itself in the foot, in the process. Those that feel they are being robbed by illegals using services, ought to take a look at how much they would be paying for goods, services and taxes if it weren't for those illegals. Its like kicking yourself in the nuts because your toe itches.

Raiding companies to give the appearance of "doing something" is nothing short of retarded. Separating kids from their parents is just plain spiteful. Shame on whoever is responsible.

There is one area where the Congress and President agree. They should stop playing games long enough to pass immigration reform. Not build a fence, but do something that benefits everyone. Kicking illegals out of the country benefits no one. It may please a few people who have no concept of economics, but the rest of us have to suffer for that?

Amen, brother! (Finally, something you and I can agree on )