In the Rush to Help - Global Warming

[dartay]

Originally Posted by Jacko

I have posted links ad nauseum ((I like that!) that source the vast preponderance of evidence AND our best scientists who widely believe the very complicated science that lead us to believe that there is a 90% probability that man is contributing to global warming in a way that is causing serious negative effects that we might be able to slow or even reduce based upon the actions we choose to take. You choose not to accept anythiing unless it is 100% fact...I think that is a very foolish position for you to take...cautious avoidance should be the order of the day on this issue......didn't you once say you were a scientist?

I am and I disagree with most of what you say.

Do I agree that man contributes? Absolutely.....To what extent? You've bought into the man is the cause of everything theory, I disagree.

On both "vast preponderance" and "our best scientists". There are quite a few of "our best" scientists who don't pray the alter of Gore.

Again....you posted......."global warming pollution" as a statement of fact, not vast preponderance of evidence......please back that up.

[james]

it doesn't require taking a 5hr freshman engineering thermodynamics class to appreciate that exothermic reactions conducted in a closed system will cause increased temperatures. I would be embarrassed to argue against it.

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by dartay

I am and I disagree with most of what you say.

Do I agree that man contributes? Absolutely.....To what extent? You've bought into the man is the cause of everything theory, I disagree.

On both "vast preponderance" and "our best scientists". There are quite a few of "our best" scientists who don't pray the alter of Gore.

Again....you posted......."global warming pollution" as a statement of fact, not vast preponderance of evidence......please back that up.

You are in shift and dodge mode...first, I NEVER said that "man is the cause of everything"..this myopic, "black and white" approach is one I see most often by the denialists.....of course man is NOT the cause of ALL global warming....I am concerned and focused on the serious role we are playing that is contributing to global warming in dramatic and ostensibly preventable ways.

Secondly, I have already conceded that it is not 100% fact...you are just hung up making that point because you have no better points to make and you are on a very small scientific island with very few of your collegues remaining. Lastly, remember that GW and his advisors now also appear to be "praying at your alter of Gore" Soon...you may be as well....

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by james

it doesn't require taking a 5hr freshman engineering thermodynamics class to appreciate that exothermic reactions conducted in a closed system will cause increased temperatures. I would be embarrassed to argue against it.

But dartay is a scientist....shouldn't he know this?

[kirbyfan]

Originally Posted by james

it doesn't require taking a 5hr freshman engineering thermodynamics class to appreciate that exothermic reactions conducted in a closed system will cause increased temperatures. I would be embarrassed to argue against it.

I am no scientist but isnt the earth's ecosystem a little more complicated than that???

[PlayadelSoul]

Originally Posted by melliedee

I wasn't implying that people "do squat" and you know it. I've already agreed ad naseum with the the personal effort for reduction in emissions and when I post links like Gore's list of 10 things "everyone" can do, I get laughed at. I'm trying here for the bigger picture, and until the full force of the white house is behind serious reductions, nothing will be done. You don't think the report is legitimate?

I didn't mean to imply you were implying that.

The Congress makes laws, not the President. You want higher CAFE standards, for example, talk to them. If they can see their way around the special interest groups and their campaign contributions, they might do something.

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by kirbyfan

I am no scientist but isnt the earth's ecosystem a little more complicated than that???

Ya think?

[PlayadelSoul]

Originally Posted by kirbyfan

I am no scientist but isnt the earth's ecosystem a little more complicated than that???

Why, yes, it is.

[PlayadelSoul]

Question for everyone: Let's say that manmade global warming is real and the world will be unlivable if we continue on the same path. How far are you willing to go, personally, to help change that? This is a serious question.

[melliedee]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

I didn't mean to imply you were implying that.

The Congress makes laws, not the President. You want higher CAFE standards, for example, talk to them. If they can see their way around the special interest groups and their campaign contributions, they might do something.

Okay. But your continued objections imply that you do not believe the report is legitimate? You've said so about the IPCC report, and here's one from W's top scientist saying the same thing. Do you honestly think these folks are lying?

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

Question for everyone: Let's say that manmade global warming is real and the world will be unlivable if we continue on the same path. How far are you willing to go, personally, to help change that? This is a serious question.

Very far....

[Rissask]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

Question for everyone: Let's say that manmade global warming is real and the world will be unlivable if we continue on the same path. How far are you willing to go, personally, to help change that? This is a serious question.

Why, I plan on not turning on my furnance this winter and burning wood instead to stay warm...no wait, that won't help will it?
Maybe once the warming kicks in I won't have to use my furnace at all!


oh sorry, my bad, you said serious

[kirbyfan]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

Question for everyone: Let's say that manmade global warming is real and the world will be unlivable if we continue on the same path. How far are you willing to go, personally, to help change that? This is a serious question.

Impossible to answer truthfully because its easy to go ahead and answer like Jacko but i doubt any of us really know the answer until we are put in that situation.

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by kirbyfan

Impossible to answer truthfully because its easy to go ahead and answer like Jacko but i doubt any of us really know the answer until we are put in that situation.

We are likely already in that situation...thats the point and thats the reason that PDS is so wrong when he says that we should all just do everything we can personally, while he still asks that question with a big "lets say" and while you respond with "until we are put in that situation".

None of us is doing everything we can....but I believe we each will do more, and insist that more is done as a group in our organized bureaucracies if we start to truly accept that his situation is likely very serious....it has started to happen (i.e. people taking the problem more seriously) and the changes will be impressive (and necessary)....we have a LOT more that we should and could be doing as a part of a larger society working together.

[james]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

Why, yes, it is.

just, as an example, draw the boundary around your car. that is your closed thermal system. don't over-think it.

and, of course it is true that global warming began when the pendulum swung in the other direction after the last ice age. we are merely adding fuel to the fire, literally.