In the Rush to Help - Global Warming

[PlayadelSoul]

Because those reports are adopted by governments, there is no government that can now stand up and say, 'I don't accept what's in the IPCC report.' That means that you have a common scientific base," he said in an interview Friday.

This statement is ridiculous. If anything, the common base would be political, not scientific. Bootstrapping taken to a whole new level.

As environmentalists get upset because the report is trimmed, I am curious to know how many of the "uncertainties" will meet the same fate. Rather than presenting a "summary" written by policymakers, how about just presenting the evidence, in its entirety? We have yet to see the actual reports compiled by the scientists.

[Pok-a-tok]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

This statement is ridiculous. If anything, the common base would be political, not scientific. Bootstrapping taken to a whole new level.

As environmentalists get upset because the report is trimmed, I am curious to know how many of the "uncertainties" will meet the same fate. Rather than presenting a "summary" written by policymakers, how about just presenting the evidence, in its entirety? We have yet to see the actual reports compiled by the scientists.

It's in there....somewhere...

Environmentalists and authors of the report expected tense discussions on what to include and leave out of the document, which is a synthesis of thousands of scientific papers

[PlayadelSoul]

Originally Posted by Pok-a-tok

It's in there....somewhere...

Actually, they (the scientific studies) aren't. The IPCC has them and only releases "summaries". It picks and chooses (by vote, it seems) what evidence it wants us to see and keeps the rest to itself. Whether it is oil rich Saudi Arabia or super green socialist Norway applying the pressure, what gets released is either diluted or overstated (who knows?). The only oversight is political (the UN), not scientific.

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

Actually, they (the scientific studies) aren't. The IPCC has them and only releases "summaries". It picks and chooses (by vote, it seems) what evidence it wants us to see and keeps the rest to itself. Whether it is oil rich Saudi Arabia or super green socialist Norway applying the pressure, what gets released is either diluted or overstated (who knows?). The only oversight is political (the UN), not scientific.

Actually, the concern registered in the article was about government's trying to influence the results for purely political purposes rather than the scientists influencing the results..I say let the science through........

[Pok-a-tok]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

Actually, they (the scientific studies) aren't. The IPCC has them and only releases "summaries". It picks and chooses (by vote, it seems) what evidence it wants us to see and keeps the rest to itself. Whether it is oil rich Saudi Arabia or super green socialist Norway applying the pressure, what gets released is either diluted or overstated (who knows?). The only oversight is political (the UN), not scientific.

Well, I guess you can never make policies on the basis of complete and complex empiric data, one has to summarize it into a "theory", no? And a scientific theory won't get us anywhere unless there are some policies made? Can't both be done in a single UN report?

[PlayadelSoul]

Originally Posted by Pok-a-tok

Well, I guess you can never make policies on the basis of complete and complex empiric data, one has to summarize it into a "theory", no? And a scientific theory won't get us anywhere unless there are some policies made? Can't both be done in a single UN report?

Not if the report is passed off as evidence, in and of itself. It isn't evidence of anything. It is a summary of a lot of pieces of evidence, some of which have been left out, some diluted, and some overstated. When the mandate of the organization is based on the idea that the problem exists, would you expect them to find otherwise? I mean, seriously?

The IPCC is a government policymaking group. It has as much to do with science as a Senator's office, wherein the Senator wants to present a bill on, say, fetal stem cell research. They pick and choose what they want to present, in order to bolster their previously held opinion.

[Pok-a-tok]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

Not if the report is passed off as evidence, in and of itself. It isn't evidence of anything. It is a summary of a lot of pieces of evidence, some of which have been left out, some diluted, and some overstated. When the mandate of the organization is based on the idea that the problem exists, would you expect them to find otherwise? I mean, seriously?

The IPCC is a government policymaking group. It has as much to do with science as a Senator's office, wherein the Senator wants to present a bill on, say, fetal stem cell research. They pick and choose what they want to present, in order to bolster their previously held opinion.

But it seems there are plenty of scientists involved????

Scientists say the full reports on which the summaries are based, each comprising more than 1,000 pages, remain valid, and that their own presence during the discussions ensures the scientific integrity of the summaries.

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by Pok-a-tok

But it seems there are plenty of scientists involved????

Yes, do you think they are really talking about politicians when they say this?

Pachauri called this week's meeting a "watershed" that will issue the final product of years of work by 2,500 contributing researchers and hundreds of authors who reviewed the science and organized the data

[PlayadelSoul]

Wow, thats a lot. All of them climatologists?
I think they have over 2500 scientists working in NIH, at any given time.

[Pok-a-tok]

Originally Posted by Jacko

Yes, do you think they are really talking about politicians when they say this?

Pachauri called this week's meeting a "watershed" that will issue the final product of years of work by 2,500 contributing researchers and hundreds of authors who reviewed the science and organized the data

I'm thinking more of the final political negotiations/discussions than the actual scientific work.

[PlayadelSoul]

I just looked, and there are 7000 life scientists in the Washington DC area, alone.

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

Wow, thats a lot. All of them climatologists?
I think they have over 2500 scientists working in NIH, at any given time.

Its the best we have for the moment..these are not all researchers "living in WDC"..these are researchers contributing to the report. ...do you know of another group gathering this data that we should be listening to? Is there some conspiracy keeping all these other scientists shut down and from being heard? If so, what is the purpose of this great conspiracy and who is leading it?

[woodman]

Well,i hope we get this worked out soon.But we still have to worry about the super valcano in yellowstone,the global killing asteriod from outerspace and the 1000ft sunami caused by a land colapse.Oh yeah,and drug resistant bacteria.Man,i just bummed myself out!

[PlayadelSoul]

Originally Posted by Jacko

Its the best we have for the moment..these are not all researchers "living in WDC"..these are researchers contributing to the report. ...do you know of another group gathering this data that we should be listening to? Is there some conspiracy keeping all these other scientists shut down and from being heard? If so, what is the purpose of this great conspiracy and who is leading it?

You are the one trying to imply that 2500 is some significant number. It isn't.

As to the answer to your question, my first guess would be funding. No crisis, no money. Second choice, political agendas pop to mind.

[PlayadelSoul]

Originally Posted by woodman

Well,i hope we get this worked out soon.But we still have to worry about the super valcano in yellowstone,the global killing asteriod from outerspace and the 1000ft sunami caused by a land colapse.Oh yeah,and drug resistant bacteria.Man,i just bummed myself out!

Dude, you are a prime candidate for Hand Wringers of America. Need more info, I believe there are a few members here who can help.