In the Rush to Help - Global Warming

[PlayadelSoul]

Originally Posted by Jacko

Great idea....check out this very cool link Eat Local

Do what you can...and at least do more than you are doing now. We can ALL do that. Its a start...

"Mom, you are killing me. If I have to eat one more dish of pecan encrusted sweet potato, I am going to go postal."

[PlayadelSoul]

Originally Posted by Jacko

No, I want us to make forward progess, rather than to stand still with our heads in the sand.

Or, how about we sit down, hash out our options, and go forward rather than take baby steps that allow us all to feel good about ourselves but do little to relieve the problem. It is either a pending disaster or it isn't. If it is, and we do nothing but do what we find within our convenience, we deserve what we get.

As Tony once mentioned, it is going to take a complete reworking of our industrial base in order to make a difference (if the problem is as grave as we are being told by the IPCC and its 2500, totally in agreement, scientists).

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

Or, how about we sit down, hash out our options, and go forward rather than take baby steps that allow us all to feel good about ourselves but do little to relieve the problem. It is either a pending disaster or it isn't. If it is, and we do nothing but do what we find within our convenience, we deserve what we get.

As Tony once mentioned, it is going to take a complete reworking of our industrial base in order to make a difference (if the problem is as grave as we are being told by the IPCC and its 2500, totally in agreement, scientists).

So lemme get this straight...are you proposing we should do a LOT more, or that we do essentially nothing becuase there really is not a serious problem to deal with?..because if you are suggesting we do a LOT more, man, I am with you....lets have a beer and talk about how to help get that done.

If you want to continue your stand still, head in the sand, there is really not a problem at all approach..well, I've got more on my mind than that.

I am a huge fan of us all sitting down and hashing it out...that is what Kyoto is all about. Your people are the ones I believe who have us still arguing whether a problem really exists or not.,

I think you, sir, are the one trying to have it both ways.

[Pok-a-tok]

Originally Posted by Jacko

Great idea....check out this very cool link Eat Local

Do what you can...and at least do more than you are doing now. We can ALL do that. Its a start...

And at the same time the western world is promoting neoliberalism and "fair trade" so that poor countries can get access to our markets...

This kind of western protectionism is not the way to develop the world IMO.

[ryberg]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

Other consensus> The world is flat. Blacks are inferior to whites. Nuclear power is the greatest threat to mankind. Another ice age is upon us. AIDS will eliminate the population. DDT should be banned. The bird flu will become pandemic. The Rams would be in the hunt in the NFC.

Apples and oranges, by and large.

Steve

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by Pok-a-tok

And at the same time the western world is promoting neoliberalism and "fair trade" so that poor countries can get access to our markets...

This kind of western protectionism is not the way to develop the world IMO.

I think it may be helpful to point out that this neoliberalism you are commenting on has nothing to do, necessarily, with what we liberals believe.

[PlayadelSoul]

Originally Posted by ryberg

Apples and oranges, by and large.

Steve

Well, had the scare not been put in motion regarding nuclear power, I dare say we would have a lot less carbon in the atmosphere. The ice age theory was popular a mere thirty years ago, which shows you how quickly ideas can change.

[Pok-a-tok]

Originally Posted by Jacko

I think it may be helpful to point out that this neoliberalism you are commenting on has nothing to do, necessarily, with what we liberals believe.

Right, here's more.

[ryberg]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

Well, had the scare not been put in motion regarding nuclear power, I dare say we would have a lot less carbon in the atmosphere. The ice age theory was popular a mere thirty years ago, which shows you how quickly ideas can change.

None of those issues were the focus of the largest peer-reviewed scientific research and reporting effort in the history of the planet, even for their times, as far as I know. Many of them are also opinion-based points rather than scientific research (nuclear power dooming the planet, for example, or what you said about the Rams), or don't reflect basic scientific reasoning components (the racial superiority issue). Some of them (the Earth being flat) are views that even pre-date scientific method and the age of reason altogether.

So as I say, apples and oranges, by and large.

Steve

[vieve]

Yep, neoliberalism=reaganomics, right?

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by vieve

Yep, neoliberalism=reaganomics, right?

Right!

[ryberg]

I have not done any in-depth research on this, but perhaps neo- anything is something to be avoided? Neo-conservativism, neo-liberalism, neo-Nazis...

Steve

[vieve]

Originally Posted by ryberg

I have not done any in-depth research on this, but perhaps neo- anything is something to be avoided? Neo-conservativism, neo-liberalism, neo-Nazis...

Steve

[Pok-a-tok]

Originally Posted by ryberg

I have not done any in-depth research on this, but perhaps neo- anything is something to be avoided? Neo-conservativism, neo-liberalism, neo-Nazis...

Steve

A lot of ppl would agree...But still it's the dominating paradigm in the economic "development of the third world" supported by the World Bank and IMF ("Washington consensus").

[PlayadelSoul]

Originally Posted by ryberg

None of those issues were the focus of the largest peer-reviewed scientific research and reporting effort in the history of the planet, even for their times, as far as I know. Many of them are also opinion-based points rather than scientific research (nuclear power dooming the planet, for example, or what you said about the Rams), or don't reflect basic scientific reasoning components (the racial superiority issue). Some of them (the Earth being flat) are views that even pre-date scientific method and the age of reason altogether.

So as I say, apples and oranges, by and large.

Steve

Hardly effective peer review (no matter how big) when the outcome is already decided, is it?