In the Rush to Help - Global Warming

[Just Lucky]

Originally Posted by Rissask

Boys, boys.

Scott's gonna shut you down if this turns into another Gore thread fiasco.

All this red meat talk makes me think of the crisis in US health care.

Got that out of the way. Now it can be shut down.

[melliedee]

Originally Posted by Just Lucky

All this red meat talk makes me think of the crisis in US health care.

Got that out of the way. Now it can be shut down.

Not off topic, JL. I know we can bring this back to health care if we put our heads together!

[Jacko]

U.S. Sends Mixed Message on Climate here

Excerpted....

At the Group of 8 summit of world leaders in June, President Bush repeated his calls for developing nations to curb their emissions of greenhouse gases. Without their cooperation, he said, drastic measures in the United States to battle climate change would make little sense. "We all can make major strides, and yet there won't be a reduction until China and India are participants," he told reporters.

........

The federal government has promoted sales of clean-energy technology abroad -- indeed, the Commerce Department led 17 companies on a clean-energy trade mission to China and India in April -- but that effort has been dwarfed by support for fossil fuels.
........

A key obstacle to change in the lenders' practices has been a reluctance by the federal government to acknowledge there is a problem. Although Bush has recently stepped up diplomatic efforts on emissions, the administration continues to oppose mandatory caps on CO2. It has also ordered changes in documents produced by staff scientists at the Environmental Protection Agency and NASA to dilute strong conclusions about the causes and impacts of global warming.

I sure hope THAT is not true!

[roni]

Originally Posted by melliedee

So, essentially, meat-loving roni is responsible for man made global warming! Settled.

If you buy locally produced food to the greatest extent possible, you help avoid the massive transportation involved in shipping food around the world.

I smoked some brisket and London Broil yesterday (different techniques for each of course. Then I walked it across the street for a neighborhood barby. While walking back across the street may have been bad for the carbon stuff, it was safer than driving would have been.

[birdman]

I bought a new gas guzzling F-250 pickup last week. Sure I could of bought a "Flex-Fuel" model, but after doing some research found it would pollute more than the F-250 would so went with the proven model.
I will fly to Mexico 3 times next year, hopefully on a plane that uses less fuel & discharges less crap into the atmosphere, but what the hell if it pukes a little carbon on it's way who cares I am on vacation.
Life is good

[birdman]

We are still waiting for that global warming thing to happen here in the Pacific Northwest. We are having one of the coldest summers on record.
It would be nice to get back to the mid 70's .
Keep tryin to scare the folks, but the proof is in the pudding & the facts are 1/2 to 1 degree temp. rise in 50 years does not make much of a weather trend.

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by birdman

We are still waiting for that global warming thing to happen here in the Pacific Northwest. We are having one of the coldest summers on record. It would be nice to get back to the mid 70's .
Keep tryin to scare the folks, but the proof is in the pudding & the facts are 1/2 to 1 degree temp. rise in 50 years does not make much of a weather trend.

Well, there it is folks....Despite what the President says, despite what almost all of our best scientists say...there is really no global warming going on for sure now..not manmade OR natural per birdman...its obvious to birdman...it just cannot be.....cuz its cold in the Pacific Northwest this summer!

All this hullabaloo about climate change... because the President, most of our best scientists, most all of our environmentalists, almost all of our leaders...many of our biggest business leaders....here and throughout the rest of the world.... well.... all of them...they just want to scare us all....

[PlayadelSoul]

Originally Posted by Jacko

Well, there it is folks....Despite what the President says, despite what almost all of our best scientists say...there is really no global warming going on for sure now..not manmade OR natural per birdman...its obvious to birdman...it just cannot be.....cuz its cold in the Pacific Northwest this summer!

All this hullabaloo about climate change... because the President, most of our best scientists, most all of our environmentalists, almost all of our leaders...many of our biggest business leaders....here and throughout the rest of the world.... well.... all of them...they just want to scare us all....

Well, you know, sooner or later, you are going to need the temps to go up somewhere. Otherwise, all of these individual reports start to add up. There is a rather sizeable collection of climatologists that say we are nearing the end of the naturally occurring warming trend (they usually last about 30 years).

Here we are in the middle of August, and not a peep out of hurricane alley (knock on wood). If this continues, that will be two years in a row where there were fewer hurricanes than average. Hardly a trend, but when you start adding up the anecdotal evidence, it starts to add up to something quite different than the "end of days" we were led to believe was upon us.

[Just Lucky]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

Well, you know, sooner or later, you are going to need the temps to go up somewhere. Otherwise, all of these individual reports start to add up. There is a rather sizeable collection of climatologists that say we are nearing the end of the naturally occurring warming trend (they usually last about 30 years).

Here we are in the middle of August, and not a peep out of hurricane alley (knock on wood). If this continues, that will be two years in a row where there were fewer hurricanes than average. Hardly a trend, but when you start adding up the anecdotal evidence, it starts to add up to something quite different than the "end of days" we were led to believe was upon us.

Absolutely the best of luck to you and everyone in the region with any of the storms that may happen.

I think it wise to look at what the insurance industry is saying about the probability of hurricaines. There is quite a lengthy PDF here examining the increased risks from a medium term perspective:


http://www.rms.com/Publications/60HU...whitepaper.pdf



There has been a marked increase in hurricane activity in the Atlantic Basin since 1995. Relative to
the average of the low activity period from 1970-1994, the overall number of hurricanes has
increased by more than 60% and the number of the more intense category 3-5 storms by more than
150%. While the increase relative to the long-term historical baseline of activity is less than half of
these numbers, since 1995 the basin has not only been more active, but a greater proportion of
hurricanes are becoming intense. The switch from a low-activity regime to a high-activity regime
has previously been considered the result of cyclical, multi-decadal climatological variations,
principally driven by sea surface temperatures in the equatorial North Atlantic. There are also
emerging views in the scientific literature that these sea surface temperatures are being affected by
climate change, so that they may not revert back to the long-term, pre-1990s averages
There has been a marked increase in hurricane activity in the Atlantic Basin since 1995. Relative to
the average of the low activity period from 1970-1994, the overall number of hurricanes has
increased by more than 60% and the number of the more intense category 3-5 storms by more than
150%. While the increase relative to the long-term historical baseline of activity is less than half of
these numbers, since 1995 the basin has not only been more active, but a greater proportion of
hurricanes are becoming intense. The switch from a low-activity regime to a high-activity regime
has previously been considered the result of cyclical, multi-decadal climatological variations,
principally driven by sea surface temperatures in the equatorial North Atlantic. There are also
emerging views in the scientific literature that these sea surface temperatures are being affected by
climate change, so that they may not revert back to the long-term, pre-1990s averages

[kirbyfan]

...and last year hurricane activity was about non-exsistant and thus far this season the same....imagine that, some years there are more hurricanes than other years! We are definately on to something now! I bet that some years theres more rainfall than others as well!

I've had more bird poop on my car lately and the last few times I went to the movie theater, the popcorn tasted better.....2 more trends!!!

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by kirbyfan

...and last year hurricane activity was about non-exsistant and thus far this season the same....imagine that, some years there are more hurricanes than other years! We are definately on to something now! I bet that some years theres more rainfall than others as well!

I've had more bird poop on my car lately and the last few times I went to the movie theater, the popcorn tasted better.....2 more trends!!!

Pretty scientific stuff you are bringing up here kirby...you are indeed reflecting the thinking of those who still believe this crap ...I just think we have different ideas of just what crap is.

[birdman]

Originally Posted by Jacko

Well, there it is folks....Despite what the President says, despite what almost all of our best scientists say...there is really no global warming going on for sure now..not manmade OR natural per birdman...its obvious to birdman...it just cannot be.....cuz its cold in the Pacific Northwest this summer!

All this hullabaloo about climate change... because the President, most of our best scientists, most all of our environmentalists, almost all of our leaders...many of our biggest business leaders....here and throughout the rest of the world.... well.... all of them...they just want to scare us all....

Jacko, of course there is global warming; it started the last day of the last ice age & will continue until the first day of the next, BFD. The sky is not falling, nature is taking her course.

There are as many scientists that dispute global warming as there are that are convinced it exists, we just don't hear them on the evening news every night.

The environmentalists are not the people I am going to put much faith in since they live off mommy & daddys $$$ & have not spent much time in the outdoors to see what is really going on. ( I live 20 miles from one of the biggest freak shows, err --- enviro encampments on earth) so do now all about them.

When the pollution puking jets quit flying folks to exotic retreats / vacation spots, when everyone sells those big ole motor homes they have to own to vacation 2 or 3 weeks a year, when I see the yuppies/invironmentalists wearing furs to keep warm in the winter & the day hell freezes over I will believe we have a problem.

[Rissask]

Getting past all the sarcasm from both sides.....birdman and others are making a point that I made in the other thread, which is very true- until we actually see some major and sudden effects, climate wise, many, MANY people aren't going to take it seriously, nor make any changes.

And because the effects will happen slowly, a few species disappearing here and there, a devastating hurricane or tornado there and there, and since neither is anything too unusual anyway, and there is too much variation geographically (I mean, I haven't seen any wacky climate effects where I live whatsoever!)....what's the emergency?

If my house isn't on fire, why throw water on it, is the attitude. You can call that shortsighted, some will call it common sense.

Sad thing is, IF the prediction turn out to be correct, by the time the effects start really happening, it will be too late to make big changes (not that making big changes might change the outcome anyway, IF it happens.)

Carpe diem, everyone!

[STOGEY]

Some where in California there was a law passed that limits the time and where a person can have a bar baque

[STOGEY]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

Well, if you care for the environment, wouldn't you want to be educated as to what causes what?
He cares so much that he wrote a book on the subject. Maybe you ought to read it.

Not if what I'm being educated in what is just political opinion(consenses) and not actual fact.