In the Rush to Help - Global Warming

[Just Lucky]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

When you use the Arctic ice melting as your evidence of "urgency", of course I question it. How much ice was there in 1950? 1960? 1845? 1971? You have no clue. Well, you do have one. The fact that a wooden sailboat was able to navigate through it, in 1903.

Not to be overly concerned with facts but, I assume you are talking about Amundsen's expedition. He puposely chose an boat of only 70 feet in length. A larger ship would not have been able to make the journey. Yes, he started off in 1903. It took until 1905-06 to complete the journey.

[PlayadelSoul]

Originally Posted by Just Lucky

Not to be overly concerned with facts but, I assume you are talking about Amundsen's expedition. He puposely chose an boat of only 70 feet in length. A larger ship would not have been able to make the journey. Yes, he started off in 1903. It took until 1905-06 to complete the journey.

He navigated the NW Passage, which the clearing of, today, is what we are supposed to find so alarming. Arctic ice coverage has only been recorded since the late 1970's, so any claims to historical ice melts are, at best, misleading.

[Pok-a-tok]

[MikeW]

Anyone here live near sea level????
Let us know how it's going, say in about 100 years.
Maybe your grandkids can let our grandkids know.

[PlayadelSoul]

Good read.

washingtonpost.com - nation, world, technology and Washington area news and headlines

Never has so little been asked of so many at such a critical moment.


The hard facts are these: If we sum up the easy, cost-effective, eco-efficiency measures we should all embrace, the best we get is a slowing of the growth of environmental damage. That's hardly enough: Avoiding the worst risks of climate change, for instance, may require reducing U.S. carbon emissions by 80 percent in the next 30 years while invoking the moral authority such reductions would confer to persuade China, India and other booming nations to embrace similar restraint. Obsessing over recycling and installing a few special light bulbs won't cut it. We need to be looking at fundamental change in our energy, transportation and agricultural systems rather than technological tweaking on the margins, and this means changes and costs that our current and would-be leaders seem afraid to discuss. Which is a pity, since Americans are at their best when they're struggling together, and sometimes with one another, toward difficult goals.

Throughout our history it has been the knotty, vexing challenges, and leaders who speak frankly about them, that have fired our individual and communal imagination, creativity and commitment. Paul Revere didn't race through the streets of Middlesex County hawking a book on "The Lazy Revolutionary." Franklin Roosevelt didn't mobilize the country's energies by listing 10 easy ways to oppose fascism. And it's unlikely that Martin Luther King Jr.'s drafts of his "I Have a Dream" speech or his "Letter From Birmingham Jail" imagined a practical politics of change rooted in individualistic, consumer-centered actions.

[melliedee]

I'm having a difficult time interpreting your intention of the two quotes in your post above. Because individual action will not result in enough impact to curb global warming, individuals then should give up and do nothing?

I also find it strange that the author uses an example of MLK and how he could not have "imagined" the impact his writings might have on the individual? How do you think movements which incite full scale change began in the first place?

Also, I cannot link to full article...

[PlayadelSoul]

Originally Posted by melliedee

I'm having a difficult time interpreting your intention of the two quotes in your post above. Because individual action will not result in enough impact to curb global warming, individuals then should give up and do nothing?

I also find it strange that the author uses an example of MLK and how he could not have "imagined" the impact his writings might have on the individual? How do you think movements which incite full scale change began in the first place?

Also, I cannot link to full article...

Is it asking for a password?

[melliedee]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

Is it asking for a password?

No, it's linking to the front page. I've scanned all the headlines and I can't find the story your quotes come from.

[sctx]

Originally Posted by melliedee

No, it's linking to the front page. I've scanned all the headlines and I can't find the story your quotes come from.

typical conservative trick

[PlayadelSoul]

That was a mess

Left hand side, OPINIONS, Its Not Easy Being Green

[Pok-a-tok]

The time for easy is over. We're grown-ups who understand the necessity of hard work and difficult choices.

I wonder...

[ryberg]

THIS JUST IN!

The great majority of people who measure relevant natural phenomenon in ways that have nothing to do with computer models and who come from all different countries of the world and all different backgrounds and who came together to study the subject in depth as they have done for years agree unanimously that man-made global warming continues apace and presents the great danger of our times to our planet, despite continuing denials by a minority!

We now return you to your regularly scheduled endless debate.

Steve

[melliedee]

This is the most inspired call to action to combat global warming you've ever posted, PDS. All our stats must be chipping your armor! Thanks for posting this.


But we cannot permit our leaders to sell us short. To stop at "easy" is to say that the best we can do is accept an uninspired politics of guilt around a parade of uncoordinated individual action. What of the power and exhilaration that comes from working with others toward bold possibilities for the future? What of present sacrifice for future gain?

The time for easy is over. We're grown-ups who understand the necessity of hard work and difficult choices.

[PlayadelSoul]

Originally Posted by melliedee

This is the most inspired call to action to combat global warming you've ever posted, PDS. All our stats must be chipping your armor! Thanks for posting this.


But we cannot permit our leaders to sell us short. To stop at "easy" is to say that the best we can do is accept an uninspired politics of guilt around a parade of uncoordinated individual action. What of the power and exhilaration that comes from working with others toward bold possibilities for the future? What of present sacrifice for future gain?

The time for easy is over. We're grown-ups who understand the necessity of hard work and difficult choices.

Actually, I have posted better. My point has always been that if the danger is as real as some say it is, then relying on "feel good" measures ain't going to get it done.

[melliedee]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

Actually, I have posted better. My point has always been that if the danger is as real as some say it is, then relying on "feel good" measures ain't going to get it done.

Right. But I stand by the MLK example. It is individuals rallying together to effect real change that results in...real change. Could it be we've agreed this whole time?! It's a Thanksgiving Day Miracle...