In the Rush to Help - Global Warming

[Jacko]

Bali breakthrough launches climate talks

Nearly 200 nations agreed at U.N.-led talks in Bali on Saturday to launch negotiations on a new pact to fight global warming after a reversal by the United States allowed a breakthrough.

...............

DAY OF DRAMA

In a day of drama and emotional speeches, nations had berated and booed the U.S. representatives for holding out. A wave of relief swept the room when the United States relented.

"The United States is very committed to this effort and just wants to really ensure we all act together," said Paula Dobriansky, head of the U.S. delegation.

"With that, Mr Chairman, let me say to you we will go forward and join consensus," she said to cheers and claps.

James Connaughton, chairman of the White House Council on Environmental Quality, said: "This is not a step taken alone by America. This is a step taken by all the countries that the time had come to open a new chapter."

[diogeron]

Climate change - in my view
Those pesky scientists keep getting in the way of the Luddites on the issue of global climate change. It is worth reading four top British scientists on the subject. Yes, they do not agree 100% on all issues but that fact does not make an argument that man made contributions to global climate change don't exist as some claim. This is the fallacy one hears from the creationists about "gaps" in evolutionary theory as if, by definition, any "gap" (lack of an extant fossil, for example) automatically proves that creationism is a valid, superior explanation for how life on earth came to exist. If you think about it, that kind of reasoning makes no sense.

Originally Posted by Jacko

Bali breakthrough launches climate talks

Nearly 200 nations agreed at U.N.-led talks in Bali on Saturday to launch negotiations on a new pact to fight global warming after a reversal by the United States allowed a breakthrough.

...............

DAY OF DRAMA

In a day of drama and emotional speeches, nations had berated and booed the U.S. representatives for holding out. A wave of relief swept the room when the United States relented.

"The United States is very committed to this effort and just wants to really ensure we all act together," said Paula Dobriansky, head of the U.S. delegation.

"With that, Mr Chairman, let me say to you we will go forward and join consensus," she said to cheers and claps.

James Connaughton, chairman of the White House Council on Environmental Quality, said: "This is not a step taken alone by America. This is a step taken by all the countries that the time had come to open a new chapter."

[STOGEY]

It seems that the climatologists are concerned about the possibility of global warming on the planet Mars. They seem to think that with all of the exploration that is going on the planet Mars. That with the expellation of carbon gases from the Mars rovers there has been an increase in temperature on the red planet.

[diogeron]

Remember when President Bush pledged $12 Billion back in 2004 for the space program that included a manned trip to Mars? Has anybody heard anything about it since? Of course, if Bush goes on the trip himself after he's finally left office, then the hot air he will generate certainly could contribute to climate change on Mars.
Of course, I've often said that Bush is "from another planet," so maybe he'd just be going back home.

Originally Posted by STOGEY

It seems that the climatologistst are concerned about the possibility of global warming on the planet Mars. They seem to think that with all of the exploration that is going on the planet Mars. That with the expellation of carbon gases from the Mars rovers there has been an increase in temperature on the red planet.

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by diogeron

Climate change - in my view
Those pesky scientists keep getting in the way of the Luddites on the issue of global climate change. It is worth reading four top British scientists on the subject. Yes, they do not agree 100% on all issues but that fact does not make an argument that man made contributions to global climate change don't exist as some claim. This is the fallacy one hears from the creationists about "gaps" in evolutionary theory as if, by definition, any "gap" (lack of an extant fossil, for example) automatically proves that creationism is a valid, superior explanation for how life on earth came to exist. If you think about it, that kind of reasoning makes no sense.

Good and interesting reading well worth the time!

Excerpted from these very well-reasoned writings....

Professor Carl Wunsch-

Thus at bottom, it is very difficult to separate human induced change from natural change, certainly not with the confidence we all seek. In these circumstances, it is essential to remember that the inability to prove human-induced change is not the same thing as a demonstration of its absence. It is probably true that most scientists would assign a very high probability that human-induced change is already strongly present in the climate system, while at the same time agreeing that clear-cut proof is not now available and may not be available for a long-time to come, if ever. Public policy has to be made on the basis of probabilities, not firm proof.

Dr. Tim Palmer

But crucially, uncertainty is not a reason for inaction. If you were told at check-in that the flight engineers had discovered cracks in the wings of your aeroplane and there was a 70% chance of it crashing, my guess is that you would decide not to fly, even though the forecast was uncertain! If we pool together the forecasts from the best available climate models of today, these similarly indicate that there is a very high probability of a serious problem - a problem which has already begun to be manifest, and is very likely to become more and more significant as we progress through this century.


Professor F. Sherwood Roland

The actions now urgently needed are the same ones which have been developed over the past several decades, starting with a strong emphasis on conservation. Industrial energies need to shift away from coal, gas, and oil to the renewables and to a revived nuclear option. This will not be an easy path, but the alternative of abrupt climate change could represent a catastrophic future.

Dr. Simon L. Lewis

Are we heading for catastrophe? Possibly. It is currently impossible to make robust predictions concerning how future climatic changes will interact with social factors and non-climatic environmental problems in an increasingly globalised world, but it is straightforward to conceive of plausible and socially explosive scenarios (e.g. mixing a future economic recession and geopolitical tensions over resources, with extreme weather events causing a a key crop failure and resulting mass human migrations could overload political institutions). However, regarding climate change per se, it is physically possible to avoid the worst of climate change depending upon political choices now.

[STOGEY]

Originally Posted by diogeron

Remember when President Bush pledged $12 Billion back in 2004 for the space program that included a manned trip to Mars? Has anybody heard anything about it since? Of course, if Bush goes on the trip himself after he's finally left office, then the hot air he will generate certainly could contribute to climate change on Mars.
Of course, I've often said that Bush is "from another planet," so maybe he'd just be going back home.

You maybe right.

[Jacko]

Bali climate deal paves way for hotter U.S. debate Here

Excerpts...

U.S. policymakers predict there will be no law on climate change under a reluctant Bush but presidential hopefuls -- including those from his own Republican Party -- already are laying the groundwork for his exit in January 2009.

.........

The Bush administration has opposed specific targets to reduce the emissions of greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide -- spewed by coal-fired power plants and petroleum-fueled vehicles -- arguing that this would hurt the U.S. economy.

The Bush team has been increasingly isolated on the climate issue, even in the United States, where some of the country's largest businesses, including the Big Three automakers and regional electric companies, have been pushing for a system to cap and trade credits for greenhouse emissions.
.........

Meanwhile, the presidential hopefuls have chimed in with Democratic frontrunners Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama joining Republican frontrunners Rudy Giuliani, Mike Huckabee and Mitt Romney in insisting it was an issue to be faced.

"Climate change is real," said both Giuliani and Republican Arizona Sen. John McCain, another Republican hopeful

The administration also has come under pressure from other parts of the government and country:

-- The Senate Environment and Public Works Committee passed a Republican-sponsored bill that aims to curb climate change, and sent it to the full Senate for debate next year;

-- The Senate passed an energy bill that cuts U.S. oil use, curbs emissions of climate-warming carbon dioxide and boosts fuel efficiency, and Bush indicated he would sign it;

-- A federal court upheld a California law that requires curbs in greenhouse gas emissions by cars and trucks that are tougher than U.S. standards, rejecting an argument by vehicle makers that federal law should apply;

-- A panel of U.S. state governors called for more alternative fuels and clean vehicles, and urged other governors to act "to solve America's energy challenges."

[woodman]

Ho hum

[StewartG]

Originally Posted by woodman

Ho hum

You're turning into quite the contributor around here.

At least Stogey's contributions are entertaining and PlayadelSoul's are eloquent.

Nice to see that the question of climate change is so "ho hum" for you.

I'm guessing you don't have kids, grandkids, or give a crap about the next 100 years on this planet.

[woodman]

Originally Posted by StewartG

You're turning into quite the contributor around here.

Nice to see that the question of climate change is so "ho hum" for you.

I'm guessing you don't have kids, grandkids, or give a crap about the next 100 years on this planet.

Very nice stewLet me have it.I just find it funny that people don't want to make real changes.Ones that actually hurt.Go with out AC,don't fly to playa 8 times a year,don't build houses over 1800 sq.feet or around.Things like that!

[StewartG]

Originally Posted by woodman

Very nice stewLet me have it.I just find it funny that people don't want to make real changes.Ones that actually hurt.Go with out AC,don't fly to playa 8 times a year,don't build houses over 1800 sq.feet or around.Things like that!

[edit] not worth it

[woodman]

Originally Posted by StewartG

Like I said, you're turning into quite the contributor around here.

Might I politely suggest you take your axe and grind it elsewhere?

Since when did you get polite?And no.But i do like you trying to get back at me,i don't blame you for that.

[woodman]

Originally Posted by StewartG

[edit] not worth it

And i notice you did'nt address my statement.I'm sure you'll just insult me instead.

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by woodman

And i notice you did'nt address my statement.I'm sure you'll just insult me instead.

I think it is a bit insulting when you say "ho-hum" in response to something you know that I, and many others, feel passionately concerned about and are seeking earnestly to make positive change...and if you were not talking to me, perhaps you should have clarified that...

Some will make the level of change you suggest...some will do more than that, some will do less.......I think it is a good start that everyone just does more than what they are doing today to help to improve the situation..and to at least recognize that there IS a problem that we can afford to begin to fix...what I hate is folks that sit around taking the position that until we all are willing to become monks, its just not worth doing anything...or, that we cannot start to do anything because it will wreck havoc with our economy and put everyone out of work.....it is, in my opinion, a defeatist attitude that does not encourage positive change nor seek to respond to the real problem with practical or achievable solutions...OTOH if you are already a monk..then perhaps one has the right to take the "ho-hum" position...but thats just me sayin it.......

Originally Posted by woodman

Very nice stewLet me have it.I just find it funny that people don't want to make real changes.Ones that actually hurt.Go with out AC,don't fly to playa 8 times a year,don't build houses over 1800 sq.feet or around.Things like that!

You find that "funny"? What if we all made positive changes that didn't hurt? Would that help do you think?

How do you know who is making changes that "hurt" and who is not? Do you think you are smart enough to know all the changes that are "real" or do you think there may be "real changes" that you might just not yet understand? Pretty arrogant of you to think you have this figured out wouldn't you say?

[woodman]

Originally Posted by Jacko

I think it is a bit insulting when you say "ho-hum" in response to something you know that I, and many others, feel passionately concerned about and are seeking earnestly to make positive change...and if you were not talking to me, perhaps you should have clarified that...

Some will make the level of change you suggest...some will do more than that, some will do less.......I think it is a good start that everyone just does more than what they are doing today to help to improve the situation..and to at least recognize that there IS a problem that we can afford to begin to fix...what I hate is folks that sit around taking the position that until we all are willing to become monks, its just not worth doing anything...it is a defeatist attitude that does not encourage positive change nor seek to respond to the real problem with practical solutions...OTOH if you are already a monk..then perhaps one has the right to take the "ho-hum" position...but thats just me sayin it.......



You find that "funny"? What if we all made positive changes that didn't hurt? Would that help do you think?

How do you know who is making changes that "hurt" and who is not? Do you think you are smart enough to know all the changes that are "real" or do you think there may be "real changes" that you might just not yet understand? Pretty arrogant of you to think you have this figured out wouldn't you say?

I can see how you would take that as insulting.I meant it as,i've been reading the same arguement from both sides for 9 months.Was i bored,YEP!And small changes won't help long with your predicted outlook.