The Jena 6 Case

[PlayadelSoul]

Originally Posted by melliedee

No, there are quite a few more questions. I do not excuse the beatings on either side due to racial tensions, btw. Each should be charged in accordance with the severity of the crime. What I fail to see is how pulling a gun on someone with no criminal reprecussions doesn't peak your radar as to an unfair judicial system in Jena? The issues are not separate, in fact they lead up to each in a cause/effect manner that unfolds quite clearly according to several time lines posted on this thread.

If you're having a hard time, like I am, finding stats about the number of schoolyard fights that result in 20 year sentences, it's because there are few if any. The whole "let the justice system work this out" argument is exactly what the black people in this community fear. It is obvious that the system doesn't work out the same for them, and while this is not justification for any of the crimes, it is cause for the kind of media attention the march attracted. You are either being deliberately myopic or you honestly cannot see the unfairness?

Again, we are debating separate issues. Obviously the justice system does work, as the case was vacated because the kid should not have been tried as an adult. Now, it goes back to juvenile court. My take on the whole thing is that the protesters will be happy with nothing less than exoneration. Where is the justice in that?

Pulling a gun is a criminal act. Is it the same as physically assaulting someone? Could it be mitigated because the one with the gun had previously been beaten to a pulp and felt he needed it for protect himself. Every case is different and needs to be looked at on the merits. If there exists institutional racism in the local justice system, it should be looked into. That does not equate to letting the kid slide on a crime that he is obviously guilty of. Is 20 years too much? Probably. Would he have been sentenced to that or was that the max? As you know, sentencing guidelines run the gambit, so an assault could carry anywhere from 3 to 20 years, depending on the severity. If he had been sentenced to 3, he probably would have served 6 months. If he had been sentenced to the 20, he probably would have served 6 years.

[melliedee]

Originally Posted by kirbyfan

Do you know why there werent charges brought? Me either. I think saying that the jucicial system is unfair without the proper knowledge is going to far. There may be a perfectly good reason why charges werent brought, or not, the problem is as with the other things we dont know the specifics.

Charges were brought. Against the black kids who stole the gun pulled on them. I don't know about the charges at the party where the black student was assaulted. Witnesses claim the DA directed his I can "make your lives disappear" comment to the black group in the auditorium.

[kirbyfan]

Originally Posted by melliedee

Charges were brought. Against the black kids who stole the gun pulled on them. I don't know about the charges at the party where the black student was assaulted. Witnesses claim the DA directed his I can "make your lives disappear" comment to the black group in the auditorium.

I was speaking to your comment about why the white kid who brandished the gun wasnt charged.

[TAPPY]

Originally Posted by kirbyfan

I was speaking to your comment about why the white kid who brandished the gun wasnt charged.

I heard on a previous news story that it was a hunting rifle, in the gun rack, in the back of his pick up.....which just about ever male in Louisiana has.

[melliedee]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

Again, we are debating separate issues. Obviously the justice system does work, as the case was vacated because the kid should not have been tried as an adult. Now, it goes back to juvenile court. My take on the whole thing is that the protesters will be happy with nothing less than exoneration. Where is the justice in that?

Pulling a gun is a criminal act. Is it the same as physically assaulting someone? Could it be mitigated because the one with the gun had previously been beaten to a pulp and felt he needed it for protect himself. Every case is different and needs to be looked at on the merits. If there exists institutional racism in the local justice system, it should be looked into. That does not equate to letting the kid slide on a crime that he is obviously guilty of. Is 20 years too much? Probably. Would he have been sentenced to that or was that the max? As you know, sentencing guidelines run the gambit, so an assault could carry anywhere from 3 to 20 years, depending on the severity. If he had been sentenced to 3, he probably would have served 6 months. If he had been sentenced to the 20, he probably would have served 6 years.

I don't know, would you rather have a shoe held up to your head or a gun? The kid who got beat up was not the one who pulled the gun at the gas station (This event happened before the beating. You know, in that series of events that have nothing to do with each other.)

Probably 20 years is too much? What's the average juvie sentence for a school yard fight that did not result in serious injury? Until the nation took notice, this DA was going for the max (and is now under investigation by Congress, FWIW.)

[NiceTom]

Originally Posted by melliedee

Charges were brought. Against the black kids who stole the gun pulled on them. I don't know about the charges at the party where the black student was assaulted. Witnesses claim the DA directed his I can "make your lives disappear" comment to the black group in the auditorium.

Maybe this is obvious-at least it is to me. You have someone with a gun that is stolen (I don't think this is in question). So that person would be a thief? Wouldn't you then discount that person's word on how they happened to have that gun?

The whole story sounds fishy about those 3 disarming the one person (who, if he had pulled the gun, may have been somewhat justified, as he was being threatened by 3 people). Isn't the normal response to being threatened with a gun-run away and report it to police?

[melliedee]

Originally Posted by kirbyfan

I was speaking to your comment about why the white kid who brandished the gun wasnt charged.

Sorry, I don't know.

[PlayadelSoul]

Originally Posted by melliedee

I don't know, would you rather have a shoe held up to your head or a gun? The kid who got beat up was not the one who pulled the gun at the gas station (This event happened before the beating. You know, in that series of events that have nothing to do with each other.)

Probably 20 years is too much? What's the average juvie sentence for a school yard fight that did not result in serious injury? Until the nation took notice, this DA was going for the max (and is now under investigation by Congress, FWIW.)

Would I rather be beaten senseless or be shown a gun in a gun rack, you mean? I will go with door number 2.

As I pointed out, the 20 years was the max. It is probably reserved for assualts that bring someone an inch from dying. The 20 years is a strawman, IMHO. In any event, its moot. The court overturned it. Will the protests continue for this kid now that it is back in juvenile court? Kind of works against what they claim to be the intent of the protest, doesn't it?

[melliedee]

[quote=NiceTom;911785]Maybe this is obvious-at least it is to me. You have someone with a gun that is stolen (I don't think this is in question). So that person would be a thief? Wouldn't you then discount that person's word on how they happened to have that gun?

The whole story sounds fishy about those 3 disarming the one person (who, if he had pulled the gun, may have been somewhat justified, as he was being threatened by 3 people). Isn't the normal response to being threatened with a gun-run away and report it to police?[/quote]

All accounts I've read said the gun was "pulled" on three high school students by an older graduate. I don't know, maybe the folks of Jena know better than to turn thier backs on a loaded shotgun?

[Davev]

Two arrested in noose incident near Jena, Louisiana - CNN.com

[melliedee]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

Would I rather be beaten senseless or be shown a gun in a gun rack, you mean? I will go with door number 2.

As I pointed out, the 20 years was the max. It is probably reserved for assualts that bring someone an inch from dying. The 20 years is a strawman, IMHO. In any event, its moot. The court overturned it. Will the protests continue for this kid now that it is back in juvenile court? Kind of works against what they claim to be the intent of the protest, doesn't it?

Maybe they want the same charge as the kid at the barn party beating: misdemeanor battery. And, I admit this part is unclear, but all accounts I've read say the gun was "pulled" at the gas station.

[Tommygurl]

Wow!

Who cares who did what it was all bad. None of the behaviour should be rationalized. What the heck is wrong with their parents? They should be in jail (black & white) for raising such hateful bigoted children.

Retreating back to Canada now......................

[roni]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

http://www.ajs.org/ajs/publications/...903.pdfhttp://

An interesting article on hate crime. Black on white crime occurs ten times more than white on black. Page 4 is especially interesting, as it refers to the SPLC's own numbers regarding black on white hate crime.

Mark, I clicked the link in your message - it wasn't a good link. Could you please post one that will get me to the article. Thanks

[melliedee]

Originally Posted by Davev

Two arrested in noose incident near Jena, Louisiana - CNN.com

Scary.

PDS, I couldn't open your link either.

[PlayadelSoul]

Originally Posted by melliedee

Maybe they want the same charge as the kid at the barn party beating: misdemeanor battery. And, I admit this part is unclear, but all accounts I've read say the gun was "pulled" at the gas station.

Well, I want an OJ jury, if I ever commit a crime.

This protest was about the injustice of trying the kid as an adult. Now that the decision to do so has been vacated, justice has been served. Right? A mistaken application of the law in court is a viable reason to protest. However, if this is to be taken to the extent that the young black man should be exonerated because of institutional racism or because the trial judge made an error, I call BS. What kind of justice is that for the victim? A kid got beaten senseless. Someone needs to pay.

Regarding the shoe, I am pretty sure the inclusion of that item as a deadly weapon was because it was surrouding a foot that was used to repeatedly kick and stomp the victim as he lay on the ground. Its not like the accused was waving his New Balance around, saying "I'm going to strike you with this, all about your body."