The Jena 6 Case

[PlayadelSoul]

Originally Posted by melliedee

Scary.

PDS, I couldn't open your link either.

You might need Adobe to read the PDF file. Its free and nice to have.

[roni]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

http://www.ajs.org/ajs/publications/...903.pdfhttp://

An interesting article on hate crime. Black on white crime occurs ten times more than white on black. Page 4 is especially interesting, as it refers to the SPLC's own numbers regarding black on white hate crime.

In the cited 1999 statistics, the race of the offenders was unknown in 43% of the cases. Makes it very difficult if not impossible to draw any conclusions when you have to throw out almost half the cases due to missing data.

[roni]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

You might need Adobe to read the PDF file. Its free and nice to have.

That wasn't it, the link you posted is bad. I did a reply and saw the whole thing. Something you did when you posted the message caused it to be truncated or run together. Go back to your message, click the link and see what happens.

[roni]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

Well, I want an OJ jury, if I ever commit a crime.

This protest was about the injustice of trying the kid as an adult. Now that the decision to do so has been vacated, justice has been served. Right?

Mark, zoom out a little and take broader view of the incident. A view that includes historical and cultural contexts.

[PlayadelSoul]

http://www.ajs.org/ajs/publications/...3/Toth_903.pdf

Try this. I think there was an extra http in it.

[PlayadelSoul]

Originally Posted by roni

Mark, zoom out a little and take broader view of the incident. A view that includes historical and cultural contexts.

Why? We are talking of a simple case of assault. One victim, 6 perps. The trial judge made a mistake that has been rectified. Just because Al Sharpton hasn't had his name in the paper in a while doesn't mean we need to go back to the days of Selma. If there is institutional racism in Jena, take it to the Feds. My guess is that this is, as Scott and I have been saying, a case of meatheads fighting over who rules the meat kingdom (high school.)

Those who want to see racism at every turn are going to see it. Those who want to move on as a society, want the law to apply equally to all. That doesn't mean you try on case of assault the same as another. All cases haven't different facts.

[roni]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

Why?

Because things happen within those contexts - crimes, decisions by prosecutors to make ridiculous over-charges, jury panels that do not include black folk, decisions to try kids as adults, decisions not to charge white youth for similar conduct - and all sorts of things, that is why.

[melliedee]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

Why? We are talking of a simple case of assault. One victim, 6 perps. The trial judge made a mistake that has been rectified. Just because Al Sharpton hasn't had his name in the paper in a while doesn't mean we need to go back to the days of Selma. If there is institutional racism in Jena, take it to the Feds. My guess is that this is, as Scott and I have been saying, a case of meatheads fighting over who rules the meat kingdom (high school.)

Those who want to see racism at every turn are going to see it. Those who want to move on as a society, want the law to apply equally to all. That doesn't mean you try on case of assault the same as another. All cases haven't different facts.

And those who refuse to see it can go on and happily assume that the justice system works equally for all. I did not advocate exonorating anyone, btw. I just continue to ask questions you don't like about the other crimes leading up to the one that got Sharpon et al in a mood to march.

[melliedee]

Originally Posted by roni

Because things happen within those contexts - crimes, decisions by prosecutors to make ridiculous over-charges, jury panels that do not include black folk, decisions to try kids as adults, decisions not to charge white youth for similar conduct - and all sorts of things, that is why.

Good grief. Thank you, roni. I have, perhaps not very persuasively, been trying to argue the same.

[Sol]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

Why? We are talking of a simple case of assault. One victim, 6 perps. The trial judge made a mistake that has been rectified. Just because Al Sharpton hasn't had his name in the paper in a while doesn't mean we need to go back to the days of Selma. If there is institutional racism in Jena, take it to the Feds. My guess is that this is, as Scott and I have been saying, a case of meatheads fighting over who rules the meat kingdom (high school.)

Those who want to see racism at every turn are going to see it. Those who want to move on as a society, want the law to apply equally to all. That doesn't mean you try on case of assault the same as another. All cases haven't different facts.

You don't have to look for it here, it slaps some people in the face. It's not necessary for Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson to come in and try to bring attention to this. Most of these articles regarding this issue report that the damned tree was "for white students only." Even though this barrier at the high school was unspoken, still that smacks of racism. It is not an issue of who smokes dope or not, or who is a jock...this is distinctly an issue of color that has a very long and painful existence in this area. I am afraid that even though some us want to move on and apply the law equally. Sure in a perfect world, where color and ethnicity don't matter and where individuals would acknowledge that US history is chock full of violence and hatred against people from underrepresented groups. Furthermore, these individuals would be vigilant in regards to everyone is deserving of being treated with civility.

[MWC]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

Why? We are talking of a simple case of assault. One victim, 6 perps. The trial judge made a mistake that has been rectified. Just because Al Sharpton hasn't had his name in the paper in a while doesn't mean we need to go back to the days of Selma. If there is institutional racism in Jena, take it to the Feds. My guess is that this is, as Scott and I have been saying, a case of meatheads fighting over who rules the meat kingdom (high school.)

Those who want to see racism at every turn are going to see it. Those who want to move on as a society, want the law to apply equally to all. That doesn't mean you try on case of assault the same as another. All cases haven't different facts.

I very much agree with this; and I would throw in some incendiary socio-economic thinking that if it weren't for the race aspect, most of us would be ignoring the whole thing as trailer-trash Darwinism.
(At least here in affluent Connecticut )

My, what a surprise that this sort of thing would go on in Louisiana -- launching pad of David Duke's national political aspirations. The whole thing is starting to smack of the mentality re Hurricane Katrina, where the Feds were expected to come in and perform the functions that the local governments failed to do.

[flyingpig11]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

Kids are the masters of the routine. You walk into class on the first day, and you sit down. The next day, you expect that same chair. After a while, you consider it yours. The only reason I can think of that someone would all of a sudden want to sit in "my" chair, is to cause problems. Granted, the chair isn't mine. But, seriously, what's the point of wanting me to get out of it? Is it a special chair with superpowers or is it just that you want me to move out of spite? Or are you trying to prove that the chair really doesn't belong to me? Its childlike behavior made worse by the "adult" who handled the situation poorly.

I disagree, and think that this is a too simplistic a of a view of what has been a lingering societal problem. IMO it is sweeping a problem under the carpet..."kids being kids", unless I misunderstand you.
The problem as I see it is istwofold. First, according to the NAACP article, "the tree was commonly reserved for white people". The fact that someone had to ask to sit under it is a problem, it is a public school, with a public courtyard, is a form of implied segregation here. The segregation may have existed over such a long time that it became an accepted practice. Maybe this was the nicest tree in the yard. Who knows? In reality that it is "reserved" for anyone, let alone a certain race, is unacceptable in todays world. Maybe "reserved" is a term of art used in the article, and its just "a tree that white kids hang out under". Simply, regardless of the term of art, its still exclusion based upon skin color that is the root of this problem.
Second, the accepted exclusion problem is then followed by what appears to be different treatment based upon color of skin. I dont care what your national original, race, religious background, sexual orientation, just treat everyone the same within the bounds of the law, and not overzealously for your own good or due to external pressure. If so, then no one can question your actions.
Finally, if this new young student was trying to make a point, and it was a point based upon attempting to dispell or overcome this exclusionary practice, then he is in a long line of people who have done so to overcome an injustice, whether perceived by us to be large or small. It should not exist, and his actions should be applauded. This is how change occurs.



Who the hell would you ask for permission?

[PlayadelSoul]

Originally Posted by MWC

I very much agree with this; and I would throw in some incendiary socio-economic thinking that if it weren't for the race aspect, most of us would be ignoring the whole thing as trailer-trash Darwinism.
(At least here in affluent Connecticut )

My, what a surprise that this sort of thing would go on in Louisiana -- launching pad of David Duke's national political aspirations. The whole thing is starting to smack of the mentality re Hurricane Katrina, where the Feds were expected to come in and perform the functions that the local governments failed to do.

I would venture to say that things like this happen all over the country, in high schools. I know it happened in mine, 30 years ago. It had little to do with racism and a lot to do with human nature. You can pass all the civil right laws you want, but its not going to stop whites and blacks from congregating. It is natural that people who share similar appearance, background and language will hang out with each other. Then, those groups are going to have problems when they both want the same thing (in this case, a tree).

That is all the cultural and historic perspective I need. It is called high school.

[roni]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSoul

That is all the cultural and historic perspective I need. It is called high school.

And, as we all know, high school aged kids arrive there totally uninfluenced by their parents, churches, grade schools, junior high schools and the history and culture of the places where they grew up

[PlayadelSoul]

Originally Posted by roni

And, as we all know, high school aged kids arrive there totally uninfluenced by their parents, churches, grade schools, junior high schools and the history and culture of the places where they grew up

If you can show there is institutional racism, you have a remedy to fix it. If you are talking about what goes on in people's houses, how they raise their kids, what their church teaches them, etc., its none of your damned business. As long as no one breaks a law, there is nothing you can or should be able to do.

This kid assaulted another in a gang attack. He should be prosecuted. Whether as an adult or juvenile, is a matter of law, not opinion.