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Old 10-18-2007   #1 (permalink)
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"Bhutto vows return of democracy"

Bhutto vows return of democracy

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# "Emotionally overwhelmed" Bhutto greeted by thousands on return to Pakistan
# Calls for return to democracy to repair Pakistan's image as terrorist haven
# Bhutto heading for tomb of Pakistan's founder, expected to address crowds
# Reception, said to be one of Pakistan's biggest, comes amid threats to Bhutto

Vowing to help return democracy to Pakistan, former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto ended eight years of self-imposed exile and returned Thursday to her native country, where she was greeted by a massive crowd of supporters.

Shortly after arriving in the southern port city of Karachi, Bhutto entered the bustling city streets in an armored motorcade for protection against the crush of supporters celebrating her arrival.

Bhutto said she was "emotionally overwhelmed" by the welcome, but she wasted no time addressing the political situation in Pakistan.

Minutes after her arrival at Karachi International Airport, Bhutto called for a return to democracy to repair Pakistan's tarnished image as a haven for terrorists.

"The people that you see outside are the real image of Pakistan," she told reporters. "These are the decent, hard-working, middle classes and working classes of Pakistan who want to be in power so that they can build a moderate modern nation where everybody has equality.

"This is the real Pakistan, and if we get democracy, this is the face of Pakistan the world will see, not the face of extremists who have thrived under dictatorships." . . .
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Old 10-18-2007   #2 (permalink)
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I'm not so sure that this is a return to anything we might recognize as democracy. Apparently the Pakistani parliament which is ,as I understand it, stacked by Musharraff will be somehow annointing a sort of power sharing arrangement between Musharraff and Bhutto. In exchange for dropping the corruption charges which have been haunting Bhutto. It does confer more legitimacy on the Pakastni government at least internationally. Things could progress towards a democracy.

I am a bit concerned about the apparent heir apparent to head the military in Pakistan General Ashfaq Kiani. Here is a wiki bio of him:Ashfaq Parvez Kayani - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Edit] I should have better explained my reservations about General Kayani.By the way I noticed there are different anglicized spellings of his name. He was in charge of the Pakistani intelligence service,the ISI, during the time of nuclear proliferation by the AQ Khan group. It is likely the proliferation was OKed at very high levels. It is also possible that it wasn't. Here's a little info onthe the AQ Khan group:A.Q. Khan

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Old 10-18-2007   #3 (permalink)
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Bhutto vows return of democracy
Right up to the point two cars bombs went off! Truthfully, did nobody see that coming?
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Old 10-18-2007   #4 (permalink)
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yeah, like those guys are going to listen to a woman.
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Old 10-18-2007   #5 (permalink)
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yeah, like those guys are going to listen to a woman.
Didn't something like 2 million folks show up to welcome her? There were men there too, right?
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Old 10-18-2007   #6 (permalink)
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Didn't something like 2 million folks show up to welcome her? There were men there too, right?
I wasn't there. Their culture and religion do not treat women as equals..mostly
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Old 10-18-2007   #7 (permalink)
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I wasn't there. Their culture and religion do not treat women as equals..mostly
It is odd isn't it? In her case, she was twice elected Prime Minister of Pakistan......we have yet to elect a woman into the equivalent position of authority inour country....
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Old 10-18-2007   #8 (permalink)
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It is odd isn't it? In her case, she was twice elected Prime Minister of Pakistan......we have yet to elect a woman into the equivalent position of authority inour country....
not as president but there are plenty of women govenors, senators, and even on the supreme court. Just haven't had a worthy woman candidate yet.
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Old 10-18-2007   #9 (permalink)
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not as president but there are plenty of women govenors, senators, and even on the supreme court. Just haven't had a worthy woman candidate yet.
You're saying that in the US women with political aspirations are on average below par compared to women in Europe where the majority of countries have had serving women prime ministers?

That US female political leaders are good, but not that good? Unlike Bhutto, who stood out amongst others and was elected by her fellows, men and women, because she was considered to be worthy there are no American women regarded has being able to achieve the same thing? By the law of human averages that could seem to be classing US political women as somewhat sub-human...

That despite their efforts they can't achieve the highest incumbencies?

It's either the above or that US political life and US politicians aren't much of a prospect for the US's brightest women, I believe.

If the latter, it doesn't say much for the political environment of a country that fools itself into believing itself this world's leader.

I think it is a case of pot/kettle: all countries that are that dependent on religion will never consider women as equals to men, it just manifests itself in subtler, more sophisticated ways. For the most part all significant world religions treat the female of the species as "the little women". It is ironic that Third World countries, Muslim or otherwise have had women at the top and the US hasn't progressed that far.

Last edited by Daddy B; 10-18-2007 at 09:34 PM..
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Old 10-18-2007   #10 (permalink)
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You're saying that in the US women with political aspirations are, on average below par compared to women in Europe where the majority of countries have had serving women prime ministers?
I did not say that.
Did not hillary run the country for a while..unofficially? Don't try to put more into what I posted little daddy. How many women have run for president? How many got nominated? Don't blame the Us as being behind the times....If there are no candidates it's not because women are oppressed.....they got to run or be interested in the job.

Last edited by Seakony; 10-18-2007 at 09:39 PM..
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Old 10-19-2007   #11 (permalink)
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I did not say that.
Did not hillary run the country for a while..unofficially? Don't try to put more into what I posted little daddy. How many women have run for president? How many got nominated? Don't blame the Us as being behind the times....If there are no candidates it's not because women are oppressed.....they got to run or be interested in the job.
I can't remember the details off the top of my head but in the early 20th Century the first lady actually did "run" the country after the Presidnt had a stroke. Edith Wilson?

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Old 10-19-2007   #12 (permalink)
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What about Shirley Chisom....like I said... they have to win the nomination and the support of voters....so far, none have. I would hope that this country would not elect a woman just because she is a woman, but the best person for the job.
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Old 10-19-2007   #13 (permalink)
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I think it is a case of pot/kettle: all countries that are that dependent on religion will never consider women as equals to men, it just manifests itself in subtler, more sophisticated ways. For the most part all significant world religions treat the female of the species as "the little women". It is ironic that Third World countries, Muslim or otherwise have had women at the top and the US hasn't progressed that far.

Yup. And yes, it is very ironic.

We had a female PM...once...for like 5 minutes. Kim Campbell.

Women in politics in North America have it tough. People are more concerned about what colour their hair is and which designer they are wearing, than their politics. There is definitely a lot of room for improvement here.
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Old 10-19-2007   #14 (permalink)
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I believe the status of women in Pakistan is similar to the story in Afghanistan.

Before the Taliban came in power and created the radical Islamic state, women enjoyed a lot of rights and held posts in government and high powered careers, doctors, lawyers, etc. A situation more like Iran today.

Then things changed dramatically and they were banned from working, forced to wear the chador, let's see, stoned for being raped, etc.

We still kinda have it better here, I have to say.



(Although I still am not making as much money as I would be if I had a dick.)
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Old 10-19-2007   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Rissask View Post
I believe the status of women in Pakistan is similar to the story in Afghanistan.

Before the Taliban came in power and created the radical Islamic state, women enjoyed a lot of rights and held posts in government and high powered careers, doctors, lawyers, etc. A situation more like Iran today.

Then things changed dramatically and they were banned from working, forced to wear the chador, let's see, stoned for being raped, etc.

We still kinda have it better here, I have to say.



(Although I still am not making as much money as I would be if I had a dick.)
It is a shame that so many things are inequitable.

I watched some experts taliking last night about Pakistan. They mentioned that Bhutto was one of the first major targets of al Qaeda back in '88.

I found an interview with Bhutto from late 2004 that I think is interesting. link Here's a quote from it concerning fundamentalists:
Quote:
I believe that both my governments were destabilized by these forces. The Pakistan People's Party and I posed the most potent threat to them. We gave an alternative vision of freedom, human rights, modernity compatible with religion as well as progress and prosperity. Pakistan, under the PPP, was an example of a moderate, enlightened and modern democracy to 1 billion Muslims at the crossroads having to choose between the past and the future. These elements prefer Musharraf to the PPP. Musharraf is a military dictator and is not an ideological alternative to them. They have scuttled all attempts at rapprochement between the army led by Musharraf and the people led by the PPP. This is why some sections of the media have speculated that Islamabad could be seized by a combine of religio-political-military elements. I do not believe that this nightmare scenario is possible because I believe that the restoration of democracy can turn the wheel of disaster into one of opportunity for the people of Pakistan - and the wider world community.
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