Government and Secularism - Political (Duh)

[Rissask]

Seems to be a little it of confusion among people here on the definition of secular....do y'all think it is the same as being 'anti-religious' or agnostic or atheist, or something?

Secular merely means:

adjective:
1. of or relating to worldly things as distinguished from things relating to church and religion; not sacred or religious; temporal; worldly secular music, secular schools.
2. of or marked by secularism; secularistic
3. ordained for a diocese
4. coming or happening only once in an age or century

5. lasting for an age or ages; continuing for a long time or from age to age

It is usually used in regards to government. Even when the country is full of very religious citizens, you can find a secular government, ie. Turkey. Meaning the laws of the land are decided upon through a non-religious framework.

I find it common around here to be used as a really derogatory term, and it makes me wonder why some people have such a hatred of things which are 'secular'. And whether that hatred is just based on misunderstanding of the term or what.

Would some of you want to live in a country run by a Church group, ayatollahs, etc? If so, why and which church do you think should be 'the one'? What if you picked Christian, because after all, the majority in the US right now are Christian people- so if you believe in democracy and 'majority rules', does that mean that when the majority is another faith, then that faith should be in charge?

Or do you believe religious beliefs are more of a private thing and government should be secular, and church and state separate? And why?

Just curious.

[Mexivoof]

Two frames of mind. I am as "secular" as they come, and do not believe laws should be base on religious principles.
On the other hand if someone wants to put a Nativity Scene in front of the court house, who cares

[Rissask]

Originally Posted by Mexivoof

Two frames of mind. I am as "secular" as they come, and do not believe laws should be base on religious principles.
On the other hand if someone wants to put a Nativity Scene in front of the court house, who cares

well, the Christians don't care!

But that is a bit contradictory.....actually, it's VERY contradictory.

In a truly secular country, every attempt would be to keep holiday decorations, well, secular. Which would be Santa and reindeers, snowmen, etc.

Because....if you say a nativity scene is okay- as long as other groups could erect a menorah or a statue of a moon and star too, then right? Or should only Christian symbolism be allowed? We're multicultural after all.

(only playing devil's advocate, it doesn't bug me either. Neither would the other two.)

[Mexivoof]

Originally Posted by Rissask

well, the Christians don't care!

But that is a bit contradictory.....actually, it's VERY contradictory.

In a truly secular country, every attempt would be to keep holiday decorations, well, secular. Which would be Santa and reindeers, snowmen, etc.

Because....if you say a nativity scene is okay- as long as other groups could erect a menorah or a statue of a moon and star too, then right? Or should only Christian symbolism be allowed? We're multicultural after all.

(only playing devil's advocate, it doesn't bug me either. Neither would the other two.)

With you 100% on that

[gingele]

Originally Posted by Rissask

well, the Christians don't care!

But that is a bit contradictory.....actually, it's VERY contradictory.

In a truly secular country, every attempt would be to keep holiday decorations, well, secular. Which would be Santa and reindeers, snowmen, etc.

Because....if you say a nativity scene is okay- as long as other groups could erect a menorah or a statue of a moon and star too, then right? Or should only Christian symbolism be allowed? We're multicultural after all.

(only playing devil's advocate, it doesn't bug me either. Neither would the other two.)

*ahem* Santa isn't secular. Just sayin'

Oh and one more thing - a purely secular winter display would be devoid of any religious symbols as opposed to the non-secular but (purportedly) inclusive "multi-cultural" display (ie, tree, menorah, moon and star, what have you).

[JudyBluEyes]

Originally Posted by gingele

*ahem* Santa isn't secular. Just sayin'

Oh and one more thing - a purely secular winter display would be devoid of any religious symbols as opposed to the non-secular but (purportedly) inclusive "multi-cultural" display (ie, tree, menorah, moon and star, what have you).

Is it that time of year again... already?????

[Rissask]

Originally Posted by JudyBluEyes

Is it that time of year again... already?????

and where the heck have you been lately, lady?!?!

oops, gingele...I guess he was a Saint wasn't he.
But really, today, he is pretty much just a secular figure.
A big, fat (can I say that?), present-giving jolly benign dude in red.
I like him!

[horizon200]

Secular...but we could pay homage to the Grinch!

[JudyBluEyes]

Originally Posted by Rissask

and where the heck have you been lately, lady?!?!

I've been just chillin in Playa of course...

[gingele]

Originally Posted by Rissask

and where the heck have you been lately, lady?!?!

oops, gingele...I guess he was a Saint wasn't he.
But really, today, he is pretty much just a secular figure.
A big, fat (can I say that?), present-giving jolly benign dude in red.
I like him!

Riss, as an atheist, if you had children, would Santa and his flying reindeer land on your roof on Christams Eve, slide down your chimney (santa, of course - the flying deer stay topside last I heard) and leave presents for the kids?

[Rissask]

Originally Posted by JudyBluEyes

I've been just chillin in Playa of course...

AND? You're retired! You should have more time on your hands...no? miss you, anyway.

Hmmm I love the Grinch! I am all for that.

And what happened then...?
Well...in Who-ville they say
That the Grinch's small heart
Grew three sizes that day!
And the minute his heart didn't feel quite so tight,
He whizzed with his load through the bright morning light
And he brought back the toys! And the food for the feast!
And he...
...HE HIMSELF...!
The Grinch carved the roast beast!

Now THERE is a lesson for the ages.

[JudyBluEyes]

Originally Posted by gingele

Riss, as an atheist, if you had children, would Santa and his flying reindeer land on your roof on Christams Eve, slide down your chimney (santa, of course - the flying deer stay topside last I heard) and leave presents for the kids?

He used to come to my house.... course so did the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy....

[Rissask]

Originally Posted by gingele

Riss, as an atheist, if you had children, would Santa and his flying reindeer land on your roof on Christams Eve, slide down your chimney (santa, of course - the flying deer stay topside last I heard) and leave presents for the kids?

Probably, yes.
My parents did. (I even remember Dad doing the ashy footprints by the fireplace one year.)

I think it is kind of a 'if you can't beat them, join them' thing. I guess maybe they didn't want me to feel left out?

And really- with Santa, where is the religious connection, in his current incarnation today....I don't see one at all. He is just a jolly guy from the North Pole giving presents to the kids all over the world.

[gingele]

Originally Posted by JudyBluEyes

He used to come to my house.... course so did the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy....

Tooth fairy here, too. Every Passover we set out a cup for Elijah but so far he's a no-show. I blame the crappy Manischevitz. We keep hoping, though. No St. Nick or Easter Bunny (somehow survived childhood relatively scar free on that count).

[gingele]

Originally Posted by Rissask

Probably, yes.
My parents did. (I even remember Dad doing the ashy footprints by the fireplace one year.)

I think it is kind of a 'if you can't beat them, join them' thing. I guess maybe they didn't want me to feel left out?

And really- with Santa, where is the religious connection, in his current incarnation today....I don't see one at all. He is just a jolly guy from the North Pole giving presents to the kids all over the world.

Yes - but isn't he giving presents in celebration of Christ's birth? Or is it just coincedence that he makes his rounds on Christmas Eve?