Why I have a problem with the death penalty.

[StewartG]

I don't have a problem with it in theory. If someone is tried and convicted for a horrible murder or terrible crime against a child, I have NO problem with killing them.

The problem, however, is that our criminal justice system is not perfect. We still sometimes convict the "wrong guy" and since the death penalty is irreversible, I am very concerned about its use in society.

Check out this story below. If this guy had been convicted, given the death penalty, and then executed how would y'all feel? And the fact is, if he HAD been executed, there would have been no effort to re-investigate his conviction. Because he WASN'T executed: a) he is able to walk free again; and b) we as a society have the opportunity to look for the REAL killer!

Masters: Cop's big ego stole half my life - CNN.com

[TeeZet]

Totally agree, Stewart.

The story you're referring to was on national news here as well. Mainly due to the fact that a Dutch laboratory did the DNA research that proved Masters' innocence.

[Anna]

I agree. The risk of wrongly convicting someone, and the fact that it does happen on a regular basis, way outweighs the justice that can be served. There's a reason why every other (I believe, correct me if I'm wrong) democracy in the world does not have the death penalty in time of peace.

[UGAplaya]

Originally Posted by Anna

I agree. The risk of wrongly convicting someone, and the fact that it does happen on a regular basis, way outweighs the justice that can be served. There's a reason why every other (I believe, correct me if I'm wrong) democracy in the world does not have the death penalty in time of peace.

Just curious, how can you say it happens on a regular basis? Sure there are cases where the wrong person was convicted and forced to spend years in prison for a crime they didn't commit, but I would like to think that overwhelmingly our justice system gets it right. Especially considering what it takes to actually convict a person these days (see OJ Simpson).

[StewartG]

Originally Posted by UGAplaya

Just curious, how can you say it happens on a regular basis? Sure there are cases where the wrong person was convicted and forced to spend years in prison for a crime they didn't commit, but I would like to think that overwhelmingly our justice system gets it right. Especially considering what it takes to actually convict a person these days (see OJ Simpson).

Given the price that someone has to pay if they are wrongly convicted (whether it is 15 years in a 10' by 6' box or just giving up their life), I don't think that parsing the phrase "regular basis" is germane to the discussion.

If it happens once every ten years, it is too often for me and a genuine tragedy.

Our legal system is good. VERY good even (okay, as a PART of that legal system, I'm a bit biased ), but its not perfect. Perhaps my involvement in the legal system makes me a bit more keenly aware of its flaws, but stories like this expose those flaws to all the world.

How would we feel, as a society, if DNA evidence exonerated the guy the day after he was executed? Sends chills down my spine...

[TeeZet]

Originally Posted by UGAplaya

Just curious, how can you say it happens on a regular basis? Sure there are cases where the wrong person was convicted and forced to spend years in prison for a crime they didn't commit, but I would like to think that overwhelmingly our justice system gets it right. Especially considering what it takes to actually convict a person these days (see OJ Simpson).

"Spending years in prison for a crime they didn't commit", like you say, is quite different from being killed for a crime they didn't commit...

[UGAplaya]

Originally Posted by TeeZet

"Spending years in prison for a crime they didn't commit", like you say, is quite different from being killed for a crime they didn't commit...

Agreed. But how many times has a person been executed for a crime they didn't commit? Sure once is too many, but no legal system will ever be perfect. I feel like we go above and beyond in making sure a person on death row is the correct person who committed the crime.

[StewartG]

Originally Posted by UGAplaya

Agreed. But how many times has a person been executed for a crime they didn't commit? Sure once is too many, but no legal system will ever be perfect. I feel like we go above and beyond in making sure a person on death row is the correct person who committed the crime.

I had this discussion with another peep not too long ago.

We don't really know how many innocents have been executed, as all formal (and most informal) attempts at exoneration stop at the time of death.

Lucky for this guy, he was still alive, remained in prison, and had people continue to fight for his rights.

[TeeZet]

Originally Posted by Anna

I agree. The risk of wrongly convicting someone, and the fact that it does happen on a regular basis, way outweighs the justice that can be served. There's a reason why every other (I believe, correct me if I'm wrong) democracy in the world does not have the death penalty in time of peace.

Some figures:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Executions are known to have been carried out in the following 25 countries in 2006:
Bahrain, Bangladesh, Botswana, China, Egypt, Equatorial Guinea, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Japan, Jordan, North Korea, Kuwait, Malaysia, Mongolia, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Uganda, the United States of America, Vietnam, Yemen.

In that year also, 91% of all known executions took place in six countries listed below:

Most Executions carried out in 2006

1. China (at least 1,010 based on publicly available reports, other sources suggest the real tally is between 7,500 and 8,000)
2. Iran (177)
3. Pakistan (82)
4. Iraq (at least 65)
5. Sudan (at least 65)
6. United States (53)

The use of the death penalty is becoming increasingly restrained in retentionist countries. Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, and the U.S. are the only fully developed countries that have retained the death penalty.
Source

I'm glad the country I live in is not among those fully developed countries, particularly knowing that those figures (or better yet: nameless people) mentioned above might include some wrongly convicted... *shudder*

[TeeZet]

Originally Posted by UGAplaya

... Sure once is too many, but no legal system will ever be perfect....

That's seems somehow contradicting to me. Knowing no legal system will be perfect, how can you say once is too many?
If the latter is the case no-one should be executed IMO.

[Anna]

I bet that most of time the right guy is convicted, but I also bet they have the wrong guy way more often than what gets out in media. and would love to write more but hsve screaming baby on arm...

[TeeZet]

Originally Posted by Anna

I bet that most of time the right guy is convicted, but I also bet they have the wrong guy way more often than what gets out in media. and would love to write more but hsve screaming baby on arm...

Hence the typo?

[UGAplaya]

Originally Posted by TeeZet

That's seems somehow contradicting to me. Knowing no legal system will be perfect, how can you say once is too many?
If the latter is the case no-one should be executed IMO.

I don't see how that's contradicting. We should always strive to get it right when sending someone to death row. But just because one person is wrongly convicted doesn't mean the other 200 (just an example) people who killed an innocent child should not be punished to the fullest extent. Just an FYI. I used to be on the fence with the whole death penalty thing until I had kids. Mess with my kids and there won't be any need for a legal system. :-)

[StewartG]

Originally Posted by UGAplaya

I don't see how that's contradicting. We should always strive to get it right when sending someone to death row. But just because one person is wrongly convicted doesn't mean the other 200 (just an example) people who killed an innocent child should not be punished to the fullest extent. Just an FYI. I used to be on the fence with the whole death penalty thing until I had kids. Mess with my kids and there won't be any need for a legal system. :-)

As a parent, I know how you feel, and I totally understand!

I just think that until we are SURE we get it 100% right 100% of the time, we should not implement the death penalty. I mean, life without the possibility of parole is pretty severe, is it not?

[UGAplaya]

Originally Posted by StewartG

As a parent, I know how you feel, and I totally understand!

I just think that until we are SURE we get it 100% right 100% of the time, we should not implement the death penalty. I mean, life without the possibility of parole is pretty severe, is it not?

Yes, life in prison without parole is very severe. My take on the death penalty thing comes mostly from being a parent. I struggle with the whole Christian thing of judging lest not ye be judged. :-)