(POLITICAL) Ben Stein's new movie - Expelled (Heads up, Ris!)

[Just Lucky]

Originally Posted by UGAplaya

Here's a little information about it if you're interested.... Feedback: The Bible and Slavery

I've looked this over. The writers seem to interpreting from a modern perspective. It seems like they carefully sidestepped verses 45-46.

There were many preachers in the south of the US who interpreted this quite differently in their time. Especially before 1865.


If the Bible can be interpreted as to what it says might it also be true, to use an example from earlier in the thread, that homosexuality is not a sin?

Might theologians in a hundred years look back upon the claim it is a sin, bandied about in some quarters today, the same way we might look back upon the theologians who once had a Biblical justification for slavery?

In fact, are there not theologians today who do this?

[sctx]

I think every god fearin christian should own one or two commie pinko atheists

[taotoon]

I am a confirmed heathen, please don't buy or sell me.

[Sue]

Originally Posted by taotoon

I am a confirmed heathen, please don't buy or sell me.

It's not possible. We're FREEEEEEEEEEE!!!!

[UGAplaya]

Originally Posted by sctx

I think every god fearin christian should own one or two commie pinko atheists

Amen! I can think of a couple of good ones..... :-)

[Just Lucky]

Originally Posted by sctx

I think every god fearin christian should own one or two commie pinko atheists

The right in this country has every reason to be fearful.

As Dylan said 'it's a hard rain gonna fall'. just look at the thread about the 'meeting of principles' talking about torture.

[UGAplaya]

Originally Posted by StewartG

Here is the verse that troubles me:

Leviticus 25:44-46 "Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour."


A plain, non-convoluted reading of this verse states that you can take slaves, as long as they are heathens. The passage CLEARLY identifies these slaves as PROPERTY of the owner (i.e. they can be bought and sold AND they can be inherited).

Again, my question - if the bible is perfect, then why aren't we out buying and selling heathen slaves today? I think Hindus are polytheists. As a Christian, would I be allowed to enslave my Hindu friends and by them and sell them, etc?

I mean, assuming that we were ONLY applying the law of god as set forth in the bible and NOT the law of man which would clearly prohibit this.

I hear ya Stew. There are many passages in the Bible that at first glance and from someone's view who hasn't had indepth studies with Bible Scholars, are at best confusing. The only suggestion I can honestly offer is to consult a local pastor about it. That's not meant as a jab of course, just an honest suggestion. I'll see what I can find out.

[roni]

Originally Posted by sctx

I think every god fearin christian should own one or two commie pinko atheists

I hear they are mostly left-leaning bedwetters.

More trouble than they are worth.

[StewartG]

Originally Posted by UGAplaya

I hear ya Stew. There are many passages in the Bible that at first glance and from someone's view who hasn't had indepth studies with Bible Scholars, are at best confusing. The only suggestion I can honestly offer is to consult a local pastor about it. That's not meant as a jab of course, just an honest suggestion. I'll see what I can find out.

I would appreciate further feedback, of course, but...

The passage isn't really confusing to me. Not at all. I think its VERY straightforward.

[sctx]

Originally Posted by roni

I hear they are mostly left-leaning bedwetters.

More trouble than they are worth.

yep.... and always wantin someone else to do the work for them

[Mercy]

Here read this...
Does the Bible condone slavery?

Question: "Does the Bible condone slavery?"

Answer: There is a tendency to look at slavery as if it was something of the past. It is estimated that there are today 12.3 million people in the world who are subject to slavery: forced labor, sex trade, inheritable property, etc. For more information, please visit - 2006 Report. As those who have been redeemed from the slavery of sin, followers of Jesus Christ should be the foremost champions of ending human slavery in the world today. The question arises, though, why does the Bible not speak out strongly against slavery? Why does the Bible, in fact, seem to support the practice of human slavery.

The Bible does not specifically condemn the practice of slavery. It gives instructions on how slaves should be treated (Deuteronomy 15:12-15; Ephesians 6:9; Colossians 4:1), but does not outlaw the practice altogether. Many see this as the Bible condoning all forms of slavery. What many people fail to understand is that slavery in Biblical times was very different from the slavery that was practiced in the past few centuries in many parts of the world. The slavery in the Bible was not based exclusively on race. People were not enslaved because of their nationality or the color of their skin. In Bible times, slavery was more of a social status. People sold themselves as slaves when they could not pay their debts or provide for their family. In New Testament times, sometimes doctors, lawyers, and even politicians were slaves of someone else. Some people actually chose to be slaves so as to have all their needs provided for by their master.

The slavery of the past few centuries was often based exclusively on skin color. Black people were considered slaves because of their nationality – many slave owners truly believed black people to be “inferior human beings” to white people. The Bible most definitely does condemn race-based slavery. Consider the slavery the Hebrews experienced when they were in Egypt. The Hebrew were slaves, not by choice, but because they were Hebrews (Exodus 13:14). The plagues God poured out on Egypt demonstrate how God feels about racial slavery (Exodus 7-11). So, yes, the Bible does condemn some forms of slavery. At the same time, the Bible does seem to allow for other forms of slavery. The key issue is that the slavery the Bible allowed for in no way resembled the racial slavery that plagued our world in the past few centuries.

Another crucial point is that the purpose of the Bible is to point the way to salvation, not to reform society. The Bible often approaches issues from the inside-out. If a person experiences the love, mercy, and grace of God, receiving His salvation – God will reform his soul, changing the way he thinks and acts. A person who has experienced God’s gift of salvation and freedom from the slavery of sin, as God reforms his soul, he will realize that enslaving another human being is wrong. A person who has truly experienced God’s grace will in turn be gracious towards others. That would be the Bible’s prescription for ending slavery.

[Just Lucky]

Originally Posted by Mercy

Here read this...
Does the Bible condone slavery?

Question: "Does the Bible condone slavery?"

Answer: There is a tendency to look at slavery as if it was something of the past. It is estimated that there are today 12.3 million people in the world who are subject to slavery: forced labor, sex trade, inheritable property, etc. For more information, please visit - 2006 Report. As those who have been redeemed from the slavery of sin, followers of Jesus Christ should be the foremost champions of ending human slavery in the world today. The question arises, though, why does the Bible not speak out strongly against slavery? Why does the Bible, in fact, seem to support the practice of human slavery.

The Bible does not specifically condemn the practice of slavery. It gives instructions on how slaves should be treated (Deuteronomy 15:12-15; Ephesians 6:9; Colossians 4:1), but does not outlaw the practice altogether. Many see this as the Bible condoning all forms of slavery. What many people fail to understand is that slavery in Biblical times was very different from the slavery that was practiced in the past few centuries in many parts of the world. The slavery in the Bible was not based exclusively on race. People were not enslaved because of their nationality or the color of their skin. In Bible times, slavery was more of a social status. People sold themselves as slaves when they could not pay their debts or provide for their family. In New Testament times, sometimes doctors, lawyers, and even politicians were slaves of someone else. Some people actually chose to be slaves so as to have all their needs provided for by their master.

The slavery of the past few centuries was often based exclusively on skin color. Black people were considered slaves because of their nationality – many slave owners truly believed black people to be “inferior human beings” to white people. The Bible most definitely does condemn race-based slavery. Consider the slavery the Hebrews experienced when they were in Egypt. The Hebrew were slaves, not by choice, but because they were Hebrews (Exodus 13:14). The plagues God poured out on Egypt demonstrate how God feels about racial slavery (Exodus 7-11). So, yes, the Bible does condemn some forms of slavery. At the same time, the Bible does seem to allow for other forms of slavery. The key issue is that the slavery the Bible allowed for in no way resembled the racial slavery that plagued our world in the past few centuries.

Another crucial point is that the purpose of the Bible is to point the way to salvation, not to reform society. The Bible often approaches issues from the inside-out. If a person experiences the love, mercy, and grace of God, receiving His salvation – God will reform his soul, changing the way he thinks and acts. A person who has experienced God’s gift of salvation and freedom from the slavery of sin, as God reforms his soul, he will realize that enslaving another human being is wrong. A person who has truly experienced God’s grace will in turn be gracious towards others. That would be the Bible’s prescription for ending slavery.

This appears to be more modern interpretation. Would you please answer the questions in my earlier post about interpretation?

[StewartG]

Originally Posted by Mercy

Here read this...
Does the Bible condone slavery?

Question: "Does the Bible condone slavery?"

Answer: There is a tendency to look at slavery as if it was something of the past. It is estimated that there are today 12.3 million people in the world who are subject to slavery: forced labor, sex trade, inheritable property, etc. For more information, please visit - 2006 Report. As those who have been redeemed from the slavery of sin, followers of Jesus Christ should be the foremost champions of ending human slavery in the world today. The question arises, though, why does the Bible not speak out strongly against slavery? Why does the Bible, in fact, seem to support the practice of human slavery.

The Bible does not specifically condemn the practice of slavery. It gives instructions on how slaves should be treated (Deuteronomy 15:12-15; Ephesians 6:9; Colossians 4:1), but does not outlaw the practice altogether. Many see this as the Bible condoning all forms of slavery. What many people fail to understand is that slavery in Biblical times was very different from the slavery that was practiced in the past few centuries in many parts of the world. The slavery in the Bible was not based exclusively on race. People were not enslaved because of their nationality or the color of their skin. In Bible times, slavery was more of a social status. People sold themselves as slaves when they could not pay their debts or provide for their family. In New Testament times, sometimes doctors, lawyers, and even politicians were slaves of someone else. Some people actually chose to be slaves so as to have all their needs provided for by their master.

The slavery of the past few centuries was often based exclusively on skin color. Black people were considered slaves because of their nationality – many slave owners truly believed black people to be “inferior human beings” to white people. The Bible most definitely does condemn race-based slavery. Consider the slavery the Hebrews experienced when they were in Egypt. The Hebrew were slaves, not by choice, but because they were Hebrews (Exodus 13:14). The plagues God poured out on Egypt demonstrate how God feels about racial slavery (Exodus 7-11). So, yes, the Bible does condemn some forms of slavery. At the same time, the Bible does seem to allow for other forms of slavery. The key issue is that the slavery the Bible allowed for in no way resembled the racial slavery that plagued our world in the past few centuries.

Another crucial point is that the purpose of the Bible is to point the way to salvation, not to reform society. The Bible often approaches issues from the inside-out. If a person experiences the love, mercy, and grace of God, receiving His salvation – God will reform his soul, changing the way he thinks and acts. A person who has experienced God’s gift of salvation and freedom from the slavery of sin, as God reforms his soul, he will realize that enslaving another human being is wrong. A person who has truly experienced God’s grace will in turn be gracious towards others. That would be the Bible’s prescription for ending slavery.

So then, Mercy, the answer is that slavery is okay according to Christian principals, as long as it is not race-based, correct? Again, reading the bible passage I quoted earlier, the deciding factor is whether the slave is a heathen.

To summarize: if you, as a christian, were to enslave a heathen (regardless of color), that would be perfectly allowable according to the bible, correct? Then you could buy and sell these heathen slaves as your property, pass them on to your children, etc. According to god's perfect law and god's perfect book (the bible) this would be perfectly okay, legal, and moral?

Correct?

[sctx]

Jessica Alba can enslave this heathen..... it's not ALL bad

[Rissask]

Originally Posted by UGAplaya

Amen! I can think of a couple of good ones..... :-)

I don't do windows!