The KKK and Free Speech

[Rissask]

I was just reading on another forum a thread where the OP said there was a KKK rally on the courthouse lawn in a town in her county (in Southwest Tennessee) this past weekend.



I was pretty flabbergasted as I didn't even know there were KKK groups anymore, let alone that they would be issued a permit to have a rally.



Should groups like the KKK and other groups who spread and preach hatred (Fred Phelps and his followers spring to mind) be allowed to publicly hold rallies- or just what is the law where you live, and do you agree with it? Should there be legal limits or no limits at all to freedom of speech?

[Jacko]

I refer you to Morris Dees and the preeminent Southern Poverty Law Center here and here and here

[Mogley]

Better in a public forum than in the back woods. Lets everyone see the level of ignorance and that it exist. This needs to die it own slow public death.

[sctx]

yep, they still get issued permits to march........ sad thing is that people actually show up to protest against them...... they should be ignored.......... ACLU should be protecting their rights to free speech and assembly

[Heather]

I think they should be given a permit and allowed to speak if only for them to broadcast their ignorance to the world. Also, I find the PC movement has made it a lot harder to know whom to befriend and/or trust, since in the "old" days people would spew their garbage out loud and you'd know whom to dislike, whereas now that it's un-PC, these racists keep their mouths shut until they are comfortable with you. You can waste 6 months to a year or more as someone's friend until you get shocked by their hidden racism (or homophobia, or sexism, or whatever other -ism).

[Just Lucky]

Originally Posted by Rissask

I was just reading on another forum a thread where the OP said there was a KKK rally on the courthouse lawn in a town in her county (in Southwest Tennessee) this past weekend.



I was pretty flabbergasted as I didn't even know there were KKK groups anymore, let alone that they would be issued a permit to have a rally.



Should groups like the KKK and other groups who spread and preach hatred (Fred Phelps and his followers spring to mind) be allowed to publicly hold rallies- or just what is the law where you live, and do you agree with it? Should there be legal limits or no limits at all to freedom of speech?

Yes the KKK still exists. They are quite active.

They have changed the way they market themselves. For instance they run anti-immigrant websites which, while full of propagana, contain no mention of their affilliation with the KKK or allied groups.

I agree the Southern Poverty Law Center is an excellent source of information on this scum.

[Rissask]

That just really amazes me (that they are still going strong).

I was the only one on that other forum (out of 20 plus answers) who actually thought they shouldn't be issued permits to gather.....I was the only Canadian who answered, and I think it's a result of our stricter hate crime and hate speech laws.

The woman who posted about it, said there was a bunch of people who gathered to yell and drown them out. I think that is a good thing though...ignoring it seems too passive for me, somehow, like if someone tells a racist or misogynistic joke in public, I say something, I don't ignore them.

[roni]

Molly Ivins wrote a good item once on the dissonance caused by being a strong supporter of the ACLU at the time the KKK were coming to Austin and their free speech rights were being protected by the ACLU.

The good supporters of the ACLU line a block or so of the KKK bus route and mooned them as they drove by.

[Rissask]

I am undecided about our hate crime legislation, I should add.

On one hand, I do believe in freedom of speech, on the other hand I think there there has to be limits to it in a civilized society.


We don't allow lots of things- we fine people who yell out 'fire' in a crowded theatre, we don't allow our teachers to teach impressionable kids that the Holocaust never happened....or that evolution is a lie ....should we allow people to say that blacks or gays are inferior in the town square? What is the difference?

[himynameisjan]

Originally Posted by Heather

I think they should be given a permit and allowed to speak if only for them to broadcast their ignorance to the world. Also, I find the PC movement has made it a lot harder to know whom to befriend and/or trust, since in the "old" days people would spew their garbage out loud and you'd know whom to dislike, whereas now that it's un-PC, these racists keep their mouths shut until they are comfortable with you. You can waste 6 months to a year or more as someone's friend until you get shocked by their hidden racism (or homophobia, or sexism, or whatever other -ism).

Oh yeah, you're singing my song here. Nothing like investing a ton of time in a friendship you think is going to be valuable to everyone involved, then look, there it comes... the racist joke or the homophobic hate spew. It always leaves me thinking what did I miss here. How could we have spent this much time together and neither of us has any clue who the other person really is. As a bonus though, this will really make you appreciate your friends who don't indulge in this kind of behavior.

[melliedee]

Originally Posted by Rissask

I am undecided about our hate crime legislation, I should add.

On one hand, I do believe in freedom of speech, on the other hand I think there there has to be limits to it in a civilized society.


We don't allow lots of things- we fine people who yell out 'fire' in a crowded theatre, we don't allow our teachers to teach impressionable kids that the Holocaust never happened....or that evolution is a lie ....should we allow people to say that blacks or gays are inferior in the town square? What is the difference?

It's complicated, for sure. There was a white supremist group who had a permit to gather in Toledo a few years ago. Protesters countered and there was a genuine riot, multiple arrests and damaged buildings.

[Rissask]

I know...it's a touchy one. (Like the Obama/Hillary thing I admire you for being able to see ALL sides of the issue, mel).


Canada is far from the only modern first world democracy to have hate speech laws, either....Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Australia, the UK, New Zealand, France, Germany, Ireland, Iceland, Finland, Brazil, Serbia and Signapore also have enacted laws regarding it.


This was the case that set the precedent here, Jim Keegstra, a high school teacher in Alberta who

in1984, he was charged under section 281.2(2) of the Criminal Code [now 319(2)] for "promoting hatred against an identifiable group by communicating anti-semitic statements to his students".


During class, he would describe Jews as a people of profound evil who had "created the Holocaust to gain sympathy". As well, he tested his students on exams on his theories and opinion of Jews. Keegstra had applied to have the charge quashed for violation of his freedom of expression; however, this motion was denied and he was eventually convicted at trial.

R. v. Keegstra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



I have no problem with that at all. Look at the crap he would spew.

[Just Lucky]

Originally Posted by roni

Molly Ivins wrote a good item once on the dissonance caused by being a strong supporter of the ACLU at the time the KKK were coming to Austin and their free speech rights were being protected by the ACLU.

The good supporters of the ACLU line a block or so of the KKK bus route and mooned them as they drove by.

In the 70's here in Austin the Klan would recruit in high schools. They sparked a number of riots.

I can tell you many stories about how many of my friends and I were sought out by these inbreds. Some of it probably shouldn't be too public. Suffice it to say I believe in the right to self defense.

I am proud to say my butt was featured ,amongst others, in this event! Our cowardly city fathers attempted to talk us out of it.
Here's the article

[melliedee]

Originally Posted by Rissask

I know...it's a touchy one. (Like the Obama/Hillary thing I admire you for being able to see ALL sides of the issue, mel).

Heck, then consider helping a girl out?

[Heather]

Originally Posted by melliedee

It's complicated, for sure. There was a white supremist group who had a permit to gather in Toledo a few years ago. Protesters countered and there was a genuine riot, multiple arrests and damaged buildings.

Both you and Rissask make good points. When it comes to racism, I am so strongly opposed to it that I think I would be willing to risk injury and/or death in a riot. In Chicago's Boys Town years ago, I did attend an anti-demonstration against that awful Phelps person. Fortunately, there was no violence.