No Rules Good or Bad?

[TAPPY]

Originally Posted by Rissask

I read in the smoking thread in the General forum, this statement, sort of paraphrased: a lot of ex-pats move to Mexico because it is one of the last bastions of personal freedom and responsibility.

I have heard this before of course, we all have, from tourists too, some of whom see being able to carry a beer around in public is titillating enough proof that 'Mexicans have it much better than we do'.

Is this how people see Mexico? Is it really accurate, or is the reality a bit different, in your opinion?

Is freedom to do as you choose better than having rules and regulations in a society? Or does it just cause more serious problems?


Which society would you rather live in, and why? (One where there is complete freedom and no rules, or one where there are clearly defined sets of rules and regs and a competent police and justice system enforcing them.)

We can carry beer around in my hometown and we have the drive thru Daiquiri Hut !!!

check it out Welcome to the Daiquiri Hut, Y'all! A'yeee! Lafayette, Louisiana photo - WYK photos at pbase.com

[Rissask]

margaritamamma:Many ex-pats who end up in Mexico may not live like they did in the US or Canada but you can be damn sure most of them live better than lots of Mexicans.

For sure!

I think that is what bothers me the most when I hear that maybe.


People idealize how wonderful it is to live in a country without the things we take for granted.



I think people who move there (to work or live) year round when they are younger, don't do this, because they find out the reality more than retirees only spending winters there, or tourists.

[Mogley]

Originally Posted by roni

Good nomination, but nope, that wasn't it.

Cheap colonoscopy? or is that 5 c's?

[Rissask]

Originally Posted by TAPPY

We can carry beer around in my hometown and we have the drive thru Daiquiri Hut !!!

check it out Welcome to the Daiquiri Hut, Y'all! A'yeee! Lafayette, Louisiana photo - WYK photos at pbase.com

That tears it. I am moving there! You have room for us, right?

[TAPPY]

Originally Posted by Rissask

That tears it. I am moving there! You have room for us, right?

Sure !!!

[sctx]

guilty until proven innocent ....... not so good

[Rissask]

Originally Posted by roni

Well Maggie, you set up two extremes, neither of which exists in the real world.

Do not be surprised when folks take it in other directions.

I was responding with why some folks, particularly of retirement age, move to Mexico.

Mexico has a lot of rules. Lots of forms to be stamped too .

I am a little familiar with the Martin case, having read a little bit about it on some Jalisco fora, but it has not really engaged my interest enough to spend time really getting to know.

I don't think my examples were too extreme at all.

Really? You don't think there are countries with good health and safety laws, Workplace and labour laws, social programs galore, universal healthcare, non-corrupt police, fair judicial systems, enforced traffic laws and speed limits, prosecuted DUIs, etc etc.? And no countries with none of the above?

I think Thor's post right before yours there, would negate that.



And it doesn't do much good having laws if they aren't enforced, right? it's step in the right direction for sure.


edited to add: Yes, Scott, and where you are innocent until proven guilty.

I am not going to even bring up Guantanamo Bay.

[Jacko]

It is good that we have some place to go to that is different than where we live...the more different, the better(to a point)....its also very nice to go back home.

[sctx]

Originally Posted by Rissask

edited to add: Yes, Scott, and where you are innocent until proven guilty.

I am not going to even bring up Guantanamo Bay.

cool... I have no plans to visit Cuba

[Rissask]

Aha, but that is not part of Cuba...technically.

Originally Posted by Jacko

It is good that we have some place to go to that is different than where we live...the more different, the better(to a point)....its also very nice to go back home.

I agree Jacko.

Not my aim to say we should all remain at home, or anything, either. Just talkin' about wistful idealization of things....which we all do from time to time.

Remember the Onion article Heather has posted about the lady who visited 4 square miles of Brazil and raved about how great a country it was....like that....plunk her down in the favelas of Rio and see what she thinks.

[catnhat]

I prefer Canada.. I enjoy vacatioing in Mexico...A lot of our World and a little of Mexico's could make a good one...
I also do not mind the Nanny's that try and look after us.
That is not to say that I agree with all of our laws...many are quite silly...
In Canada we have some of the best Social programs..
We do have homeless people and poverty but there is help out there for those that want it...
We can not compare our poverty to those that are suffering poor in Mexico..
If in Canada people seen living at garbage dumps would be taken away and given help...In Mexico there are children and adults living and surviving at the dump...
We have medical help for those that need it..



There are many rules (laws) in Mexico.. (from seatbelt... drunk driving laws etc)I think the problem is enforcement.. I sure would not push my luck in Mexico and break the laws because heaven help if you do...One is guilty
until you prove your innocence...

Brenda Martins case..
shall see what happens...



I read some time ago this interesting probably tongue n cheek article..

MEXICO’S GLORIOUS DISORDER PUTS NANNY STATE TO SHAME

Having just returned from a week in Mexico, and therefore being an expert, this is what I have to report: It is just like Canada – 30 years ago.

By Jack Knox – From Victoria Times Colonist newspaper


People smoke in restaurants. They ride in the back of pickup trucks. There do not appear to be seat belt laws (or, frequently, seat belts). Half the pasty-white population of Canada frolick in the water with nary a lifeguard in sight.

A vacationing builder from the United States stood poolside and gazed dumbfounded at the construction workers clambering, untethered, high atop the concrete skeleton of the condo complex being erected next door. “Seventy-two feet up and not one of them is wearing a safety lanyard” observed the American, his voice a mixture of admiration and horror.

It was, in short, gloriously unregulated – just like Canada used to be back when kids could take peanut butter sandwiches to school and skate without helmets.

In Mexico, smiling street vendors served up food that had basked in the sun longer than an Albertan after a six-margarita breakfast. The water front walkway had no railing, not even a yellow line painted along the edge to prevent inattentive strollers from tumbling, lemminglike, to the jagged rocks far below. Parasailing tourists soared high in the sky before plunging straight into beaches packed with first time jet skiers-and not one of them had to sign a liability waiver before doing so.

On New Year’s Eve, the fireworks burst directly overhead and fell at the feet of delighted celebrants. The floor of the bus that carried us downtown was fissured with thousands of cracks, just one pothole away from exploding into a cloud of rust-coloured dust.

The municipal planner appeared to have been drunk. All the properties in town had seemingly been tossed into a giant paper bag, given a good shake and dumped on the ground in a dizzyingly haphazard manner. A gated mansion sat by a Quonset hut crammed with truck tires, which was beside a franchised chicken joint, which was next to a cornfield, followed by a car lot, a hospital and a farmhouse.

To repeat: The disorder there was glorious.

In Canada, we have allowed ourselves to be regulated, sheltered and shepherded to the point that our national costume should be the fluorescent orange safety vest. We have banned lawn darts, mandated bicycle helmets and robbed our playgrounds of any apparatus that spins until you trap a limb/throw up/have fun.

Few of the rules in which we wrap ourselves are objectionable when viewed in isolation (smoking in restaurants? Yuck!) but the cumulative effect of all of these directives is a nanny state that smothers us until we are incapable of moving, of making our own decisions.

The result is society with a false sense of security. It absolves us of any personal responsibility. Coffee too hot? Sue McDonald’s. Slip on the sidewalk? The city should have cleared the ice. Fall off the cliff? There should have been a warning sign.

So viva Mexico! Down with over-regulation and those who would inflict it upon us.

[roni]

I would suggest reading

Employee Pay Requirements

and this

Labor Law

If you are asserting a lack of labour laws and worker protections in Mexico.

In fact, Rolly is glad he kept all the receipts from IMSS for payments he made into the system for the workers who did a construction project he was involved in, because he was audited some time after the project was complete.

I think it is Western/European lack of knowledge that leads to some of the statements made about Mexico and other countries. That is my opinion. Like anywhere, there is corruption and laws are not uniformly enforced, but.....

Originally Posted by Rissask

I don't think my examples were too extreme at all.

Really? You don't think there are countries with good health and safety laws, Workplace and labour laws, social programs galore, universal healthcare, non-corrupt police, fair judicial systems, enforced traffic laws and speed limits, prosecuted DUIs, etc etc.? And no countries with none of the above?

I think Thor's post right before yours there, would negate that.



And it doesn't do much good having laws if they aren't enforced, right? it's step in the right direction for sure.


edited to add: Yes, Scott, and where you are innocent until proven guilty.

I am not going to even bring up Guantanamo Bay.

[Rissask]

Good article Sylvia, I remember reading that before.

You hit the topic square on the head there! Yes, I do believe it is tongue in cheek, certainly those are extreme portraits he has painted, there.


Really, Ron, you don't think there is more corruption in Mexico among the police than there is here? Certainly there are pockets in Mexico where it is much worse than other areas, but I don't know, I have read lots of things on here from Babs and others who LIVE there, that seems to dispute that. And check out some of Zihua Rob's stories if you want to hear some really scary stuff.

Of course we also have incidents of police and RCMP corruption here too, but when it happens and the lid is blown off, there are investigations and charges laid. Things are not swept under the rug or paid off with bribes, etc.

[Opatije]

Originally Posted by catnhat

If in Canada people seen living at garbage dumps would be taken away and given help...In Mexico there are children and adults living and surviving at the dump...
We have medical help for those that need it..

FWIW: I did experience living in many different places (including Canada) for the last 20 or so years and have never seen so many people living on the streets like they do in Calgary/Canada.

[roni]

Read the links some and then re-visit your no rules statements.

The first link is from an American who lives there and has dealt with the system rather than someone who becamee an expert after a one week visit and wrote an article about it .

Originally Posted by Rissask

Good article Sylvia, I remember reading that before.

You hit the topic square on the head there! Yes, I do believe it is tongue in cheek, certainly those are extreme portraits he has painted, there.


Really, Ron, you don't think there is more corruption in Mexico among the police than there is here? Certainly there are pockets in Mexico where it is much worse than other areas, but I don't know, I have read lots of things on here from Babs and others who LIVE there, that seems to dispute that. And check out some of Zihua Rob's stories if you want to hear some really scary stuff.

Of course we also have incidents of police and RCMP corruption here too, but when it happens and the lid is blown off, there are investigations and charges laid. Things are not swept under the rug or paid off with bribes, etc.