No Rules Good or Bad?

[Rissask]

I read in the smoking thread in the General forum, this statement, sort of paraphrased: a lot of ex-pats move to Mexico because it is one of the last bastions of personal freedom and responsibility.

I have heard this before of course, we all have, from tourists too, some of whom see being able to carry a beer around in public is titillating enough proof that 'Mexicans have it much better than we do'.

Is this how people see Mexico? Is it really accurate, or is the reality a bit different, in your opinion?

Is freedom to do as you choose better than having rules and regulations in a society? Or does it just cause more serious problems?


Which society would you rather live in, and why? (One where there is complete freedom and no rules, or one where there are clearly defined sets of rules and regs and a competent police and justice system enforcing them.)

[drewl]

Originally Posted by Rissask

I read in the smoking thread in the General forum, this statement, sort of paraphrased: a lot of ex-pats move to Mexico because it is one of the last bastions of personal freedom and responsibility.

I have heard this before of course, we all have, from tourists too, some of whom see being able to carry a beer around in public is titillating enough proof that 'Mexicans have it much better than we do'.

Is this how people see Mexico? Is it really accurate, or is the reality a bit different, in your opinion?

Is freedom to do as you choose better than having rules and regulations in a society? Or does it just cause more serious problems?


Which society would you rather live in, and why? (One where there is complete freedom and no rules, or one where there are clearly defined sets of rules and regs and a competent police and justice system enforcing them.)

Ah, didn't we see this in "Lord of the Flies"? Sorry, not trying to undermine this thread.

[Buggirl]

I'm not going to comment on Mexico being one of the last bastions of personal freedom and responsibility- because I have not lived there and really can't say if that's the case or not (and the beer thing- there are at least a couple of vacation spots in the US where you can carry open containers- Key West, New Orleans, and some parts of my home island....)

But I will say that I wish Mexico had some more regulations regarding worker's safety. I know that here in the US we kind of go overboard when it comes to making sure every worker is safe- but I get chills every time I see a man hanging off the roof of a building with no ropes or other safety gear to prevent him from falling to his death should he slip.....

At heart, I believe everyone should be responsible for their own safety- but not when it comes to working conditions. That should be the employer's responsibility. Safety is expensive- that's why employers can be tempted to cut corners when it comes to providing a safe environment. A worker should not have to make the choice between feeding his/her family or working in a safe environment.

Just my dos pesos.....

[Rissask]

I think a lot of people would really enjoy aspects of it...until something happens to them and they can't get protection or justice or help...then, they wouldn't like it so much.


Like, a car accident, a break-in, an assault on them, a highway accident, a loved one has a work accident (which could have been prevented, as Buggirl pointed out) and is disabled and there is no medical or financial help for that, or programs for them, etc. Then, they might be not so enamored of their new home.

I guess I see it as a bit naive when I hear people say things like that. Or a sign that they have luckily never had to experience any of the above. Or that they might have a different viewpoint if they were a born and bred citizen of the country.

A lot of the comments I find funny too is when people rave about how wonderful it is that people can smoke anywhere they want- yet a minority of the population in most countries smoke today, so that is not a general rave review by any means, but more likely to be a negative according to the majority of people. So it depends on your attitude of what 'freedom' even means.

[Mindbender]

This is a non smoking forum, please go outside if you wish to light up.


Actually drinking in the street is illegal here. Apparently so are a lot of things but for some reason I still see them happening

[Rissask]

Originally Posted by Mindbender

This is a non smoking forum, please go outside if you wish to light up.


Actually drinking in the street is illegal here. Apparently so are a lot of things but for some reason I still see them happening

Well, whether there are very few rules or the ones that exist are not enforced, the result is the same. There develops the illusion of an open society without rules.

Hey, toplessness is illegal too.

[drewl]

Originally Posted by Rissask

Well, whether there are very few rules or the ones that exist are not enforced, the result is the same. There develops the illusion of an open society without rules.

Hey, toplessness is illegal too.

And unfortunately, this is a no topless forum, so please, if you need to go topless, go to St martin or send photos to my personal email!

[Mogley]

How come "titillating" is such a happy word? or is it just me?

[roni]

I think there are 4 C's why US and Canadians move to Mexico - particularly those of retirement age

Cost, Climate, Culture and I don't remember the fourth

Some do not care at all about the Culture and move to gringo enclaves, never learn the language etc... This group is becoming larger, at least around Lake Chapala, according to one guys dissertation whose name I do not remember, but whose article I read in a subscription newsletter.

One of the reasons Cost is lower, other than labor that is mas economico, has to do with the liability issues in medical care. Groceries are less expensive and, depending on where one lives and where one moved from, housing can be also less expensive, but this is widely variable and contingent in large part on personal choices and life-style.

gotta return to work

[Mogley]

Originally Posted by roni

I
Cost, Climate, Culture and I don't remember the fourth

Cerveza?

[roni]

Originally Posted by Mogley

Cerveza?

Good nomination, but nope, that wasn't it.

The climate part was referring to the Central Highlands - not the Yucatan , though plenty of people do like or tolerate the hot and humid climes better than Maggie's Canadian winters

[Rissask]

yeah, cerveza?

That is interesting too, Roni but it doesn't really answer my questions.


There is a case recently in the news up here about a Canadian woman, Brenda Martin, in jail in Guadalajara for the past two years without a trial.


She was working as a cook in Puerto Vallarta for a man who is now in jail for ten years in the US for internet fraud. She was arrested on charges that she was involved, but has always proclaimed her innocence.


Now it looks like things are progressing, our gov't made a bit of a stink (it all came about because she was suicidal).


Things like that concern me a little...wrong place, wrong time, get thrown in jail to rot, no recourse.


Prime Minister calls case of Canadian women held in Mexico jail troubling - AOL News

[margaritamamma]

Sort of the "grass is greener" ??
Moving to a different country has its pitfalls. That works both ways - Us moving to a place Mexico would appear to offer a lot of "freedom" - not so much beuraucracy - but for lots of the ordinary Mexicans that lack of the big b means no safety nets as we have in the rest of North America. You may be freer to do certain things in Mexico but you are also responsible for your own self in many ways too. Many ex-pats who end up in Mexico may not live like they did in the US or Canada but you can be damn sure most of them live better than lots of Mexicans.

[Thor Henning]

I think the goods should be more evenly distributed in Mexico. It's so many poor people and the rich people are among the richest in the world. And they should enforce their laws better and get rid of corruption.

I prefer it in Norway.

(Though I like the climat, beach, people, culture and so on in Mexico. And I like to travel and see new places. But I like to live in my country. I think it is one of the best places to live. And I like to live where I grew up.)

[roni]

Originally Posted by Rissask

yeah, cerveza?

That is interesting too, Roni but it doesn't really answer my questions.

Well Maggie, you set up two extremes, neither of which exists in the real world.

Do not be surprised when folks take it in other directions.

I was responding with why some folks, particularly of retirement age, move to Mexico.

Mexico has a lot of rules. Lots of forms to be stamped too .

I am a little familiar with the Martin case, having read a little bit about it on some Jalisco fora, but it has not really engaged my interest enough to spend time really getting to know.