A serious question for those who do not believe in God

[roni]

Originally Posted by Rissask

Ron has charm?

That can be best answered by people who have spent time with me.

[lolabella]

Originally Posted by roni

That can be best answered by people who have spent time with me.

I haven't spent anytime with you but you've managed to charm the socks off of me before.

[SunKneeMarie]

Originally Posted by lolabella

I haven't spent anytime with you but you've managed to charm the socks off of me before.

wow, just imagine in real life what the charm might make come off

[roni]

Originally Posted by SunKneeMarie

wow, just imagine in real life what the charm might make come off

The thought crossed my mind.

[roni]

Originally Posted by lolabella

I haven't spent anytime with you but you've managed to charm the socks off of me before.

That is very sweet of you. Know that you have charmed me also

[Sue]

I'd actually like to get back on topic and find out what Mercy meant by what we non-believers "do" in a crisis versus what believers "do" in a crisis. When first asked the question, some of us simply replied that we delve into our own personal powers rather than the power of a higher being. Mercy, you seemed to think that this was fine for our own personal well-being but not enough for, in this example, a very ill child. What I want to ask is, How is your believing and my not believing going to really affect what happens to that child?

I am very seriously not trying to be antagonistic here. I'm just curious!

[Mercy]

Originally Posted by Sue

I'd actually like to get back on topic and find out what Mercy meant by what we non-believers "do" in a crisis versus what believers "do" in a crisis. When first asked the question, some of us simply replied that we delve into our own personal powers rather than the power of a higher being. Mercy, you seemed to think that this was fine for our own personal well-being but not enough for, in this example, a very ill child. What I want to ask is, How is your believing and my not believing going to really affect what happens to that child?

I am very seriously not trying to be antagonistic here. I'm just curious!

First off, I didn't really imply what you said. I was just trying to understand, the thinking of unbelievers when faced with a crisis, and how good thoughts, etc. would help the sick child, say, in a situation.

To answer you question, as a believer I believe when I pray to God, he hears my prayers and moves on my behalf or the behalf of the cause I'm praying about. There is something happening beyond myself and my own abilities. Please understand that I do not in any way discount doctors, and would certainly take my sick child to a doctor. I may love Jesus... but I'm not crazy.

Sorry, I'm cooking here so trying to do two things at once is not my forte.

[Rissask]

I am sure you are perfectly charming in person, Roni.

That's fair, Mercy, and quite reasonable. I think people who totally rely on prayer and god to cure or heal people are quite rare, realistically.

There was a case up here, in British Columbia, that was really controversial. A Jehovah's Witness couple had a very sick child...leukemia it might have been I think? I think the child was around 10-12 or so. She needed a blood transfusion and the parents wouldn't allow it, they refused, as it is against their religion. There was a big scandal over the whole thing- I believe a judge ordered her to get the transfusion in the end and it saved her life.

That is a whole 'nother can of worms, though.

[Sue]

Originally Posted by Mercy

First off, I didn't really imply what you said. I was just trying to understand, the thinking of unbelievers when faced with a crisis, and how good thoughts, etc. would help the sick child, say, in a situation.

To answer you question, as a believer I believe when I pray to God, he hears my prayers and moves on my behalf or the behalf of the cause I'm praying about. There is something happening beyond myself and my own abilities. Please understand that I do not in any way discount doctors, and would certainly take my sick child to a doctor. I may love Jesus... but I'm not crazy.

Sorry, I'm cooking here so trying to do two things at once is not my forte.

Maybe a sick child isn't the right situation here, as I would like to believe, as would you, I imagine, that this god would intervene on behalf of the child regardless of whether or not his or her mother or father is a Christian, since the child is innocent (that's regardless of how the Pope might feel, judging from an earlier post).

Let's change the situation. Let's say you and I are seriously ill. Do you have a better chance of surviving than I do? You might say yes, because you prayed and your god is going to make, say, the cancer cells go away. Whereas I, who don't believe and don't pray, have only to rely on doctors.

I know that now you say you were only curious about how we THINK and FEEL about having a crisis, but earlier you said that our relying on our own selves may help us but wouldn't help the person in crisis.

I'm just wondering what you were implying.

[Daddy B]

Originally Posted by Heather

I think I did find an instance of name-calling that I'd missed. Daddy B, please don't call people "saps" because they believe in god.

I think you'll find I called "saps" those who DON'T believe in gods (like me, one of the unenlightened who needs salvation through conversion - shameless proselytising being what I was objecting to).

Oh, and the 'mad' "smilie" is not directed at shameless proselytising, it is directed at your total misinterpretation of what I wrote. First you don't write anymore, then you stop flashing everytime I go past your window, not even a telegram... and now this!

So, here goes: Daddy B, I apologise to myself for calling myself a sap.

[Sue]

Mercy, I just want to apologize now for using cancer as a situation. I never should have because it's so close to your heart and I want to say I'm very sorry about your parents. I'm really very sorry.

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by Daddy B

I think you'll find I called "saps" those who DON'T believe in gods.

Ya big sap you!

[Mercy]

Originally Posted by Sue

Mercy, I just want to apologize now for using cancer as a situation. I never should have because it's so close to your heart and I want to say I'm very sorry about your parents. I'm really very sorry.

Sue, no need to apologize, I fine talking about cancer and my parents... but thank you.

Like I said before, I feel I have something/someone beyond my own strength that helps me in times of crisis. So say for cancer, I rely on my own strength, the doctors help and Jesus. That is not to say that I have a better chance of being cured, but for me knowing Jesus/God is there brings me enormous comfort and if He chooses He can bring healing also. It's like I have one more dimension of help. I hope this makes some kind of sense.

[Sue]

Originally Posted by Mercy

Sue, no need to apologize, I fine talking about cancer and my parents... but thank you.

Like I said before, I feel I have something/someone beyond my own strength that helps me in times of crisis. So say for cancer, I rely on my own strength, the doctors help and Jesus. That is not to say that I have a better chance of being cured, but for me knowing Jesus/God is there brings me enormous comfort and if He chooses He can bring healing also. It's like I have one more dimension of help. I hope this makes some kind of sense.

Well, I'm glad I didn't make you mad. But the whole "I have more help than you do because I have God and you don't" doesn't logically make sense to me, probably never will.

[sctx]

God doesn't have a monopoly on positive thoughts