A serious question for those who do not believe in God

[pamplemoose77]

Originally Posted by Daddy B

With religion you're safe with an instructor who doesn't really know what he/she is talking about but is crafty enough to make you believe otherwise: scuba diving is a lot more serious in that such an instructor may lead you into otherwise avoidable life or death situations.
Learn from those who can relay the facts, not those who promise you the Earth.

paolo, (sp? sorry, i may have messed your name up) you and i will more than likely never see eye to eye on my religion or what it does for me. i'm ok with that.

i can read all about diving and never choose to engage in it.. even if i know all of the facts, such as the handful you presented to me tonight.

i can learn all about the rules of scuba and why they are there to keep me safe and decide it is too much work and not enough fun. i can decide it costs too much time and money. i can decide it's not worth giving up drinking or other fun diversion in exchange for the experience.

i can watch a million specials or movies about the merits of diving or the downfalls of diving. i can talk with people who tried it and loved it. i can talk with people who tried it and had such a bad experience that they never returned to dive again. i can talk to people who took an intro course and never got past the shallow end of the pool and wonder what all the hubbub is about.

i can see the weights and the tanks and the equipment that is necessary and surmise that it's not for me.

and in the end, i'd be missing out on a really great experience.

but scuba's not for everyone, right? some people will never learn to dive, no matter how great other people say it is.


i am fully aware that you know the ins and outs of scuba and the science behind it all. i appreciate that. i think it's fascinating. i realize that my analogy falls short in quantifiable evidence for the scientifically minded.

what i was trying to emphasize is the wonder that goes along with the experience. the freedom that can be achieved when the sport is fully learned and embraced.

you will never be able to fully convey to me the breathtaking experience that i have always assumed scuba to be thru words or diagrams or photos or scientific explanations by the book full. i can't experience it until i've experienced it.

[Tommygurl]

I heart Charity.

Never once in our "real life" conversation did I feel preached too.....you are a very unique woman & your words are powerful as you "speak" in a non-condescending manner.

[Daddy B]

Originally Posted by pamplemoose77

you will never be able to fully convey to me the breathtaking experience that i have always assumed scuba to be thru words or diagrams or photos or scientific explanations by the book full.

Nor would I pretend otherwise: all I can tell you is that you shouldn't spend more than a certain amount of time at a certain depth because it is a proven fact that it can cause decompression illness. That, and other proven facts are all you need to know, the experience is yours to undergo.

Originally Posted by pamplemoose77

i can't experience it until i've experienced it.

Of course, but should you state that seeing the Great Sardine Run grants you automatic entry into the Garden of Eden you haven't got the right to feel insulted if the diving community questions your assertion vigorously and demands that you present evidence to that effect: after all, failing to do so would be selfish in the extreme because you would be preventing millions of others from enjoying the same divine largesse as yourself.

[pamplemoose77]

Originally Posted by Daddy B

Of course, but should you state that seeing the Great Sardine Run grants you automatic entry into the Garden of Eden you haven't got the right to feel insulted if the diving community questions your assertion vigorously and demands that you present evidence to that effect: after all, failing to do so would be selfish in the extreme because you would be preventing millions of others from enjoying the same divine largesse as yourself.

i will make sure i refrain from said statements and insulted feelings.

i'll also make sure i don't tease the divers or insult them for their choices, even when i don't understand them or choose to partake with them

[pamplemoose77]

Originally Posted by Tommygurl

I heart Charity.

Never once in our "real life" conversation did I feel preached too.....you are a very unique woman & your words are powerful as you "speak" in a non-condescending manner.

thank you
i heart you too

[Daddy B]

Originally Posted by pamplemoose77

i will make sure i refrain from said statements and insulted feelings.

i'll also make sure i don't tease the divers or insult them for their choices, even when i don't understand them or choose to partake with them

If any instructor tells you to descend to 60 metres for 60 minutes on a 12 litre tank of air and tries to convince you they read somewhere in ancient lore that it was perfectly safe - or that their god will keep you from harm's way, or that if you don't believe it and do accordingly you'll have to endure eternal damnation, or that it is so but you simply failed to reconise all along, or that you're a poor, ignorant human being who refuses to see the truth as stated without verifiable proof - you don't even have to insult the man/woman: please give me the contact details and I will make sure the person must undergo a thorough psychiatric examination before being allowed to dive again.

On a religious note, I will repeatedly insult those "christians" who have caused millions of death from AIDS because they have convinced the poorest, the hopeless and the most wretched that they'll end up in hell if they use condoms during sex.

You may respect people like the former because it's their belief, but I certainly don't and never will.

Neither I will respect "muslims" who terrorise my fellow men in the name of their god, nor those of any denomination who although not even coming close to these horrific crimes against Humanity take advantage of other people's goodwill to deceitfully propagate their religious agenda: in my book it amply shows an absolute lack of respect for the honest opinions of others.

[jamesblonde]

I experienced the beauty and awe of scuba diving and prayed to god while I was doing it. That makes me doubly awesome

[jamesblonde]

Oooooooooooo look at my counter. 7 days....woohoo. Paulo are the tarpon running??? I love the tarpon. See you in a week.

[pamplemoose77]

Originally Posted by Daddy B

If any instructor tells you to descend to 60 metres for 60 minutes on a 12 litre tank of air and tries to convince you they read somewhere in ancient lore that it was perfectly safe - or that their god will keep you from harm's way, or that if you don't believe it and do accordingly you'll have to endure eternal damnation, or that it is so but you simply failed to reconise all along, or that you're a poor, ignorant human being who refuses to see the truth as stated without verifiable proof - you don't even have to insult the man/woman: please give me the contact details and I will make sure the person must undergo a thorough psychiatric examination before being allowed to dive again.

i totally will

[pamplemoose77]

Originally Posted by jamesblonde

I experienced the beauty and awe of scuba diving and prayed to god while I was doing it. That makes me doubly awesome

i knew there was an extra dimension to your awesomeness!

[Just Lucky]

Originally Posted by Daddy B

If any instructor tells you to descend to 60 metres for 60 minutes on a 12 litre tank of air and tries to convince you they read somewhere in ancient lore that it was perfectly safe - or that their god will keep you from harm's way, or that if you don't believe it and do accordingly you'll have to endure eternal damnation, or that it is so but you simply failed to reconise all along, or that you're a poor, ignorant human being who refuses to see the truth as stated without verifiable proof - you don't even have to insult the man/woman: please give me the contact details and I will make sure the person must undergo a thorough psychiatric examination before being allowed to dive again.

Dude, it should be remembered that her analogy is imperfect.

I think she has made a gallant effort to explain the unexplainable.

Maybe you should let it be?

[jamesblonde]

Originally Posted by pamplemoose77

i knew there was an extra dimension to your awesomeness!

I call it multi tasking

[pamplemoose77]

Originally Posted by vieve

Here is a fun little test based on world religions:
RELIGION GOD THEOLOGY JESUS BELIEF SYSTEMS Christian Science Conservative Christian Humanist Liberal Christian Unitarian Universalist Bahá'í Neo-Pagan Orthodox Quaker Liberal Quaker New Age New Thought Reform Judaism Jehovah's Witness East Orthodox T

I've found that the reults of this sometimes surprise people- for example, my devoutly catholic Aunt tested surprisingly pagan and my Wiccan mother-in-law was more protestant than she wanted to admit to being!
Not sure if the results include Satanism...maybe Daddy B could let us know?

apparently i'm 100% mainline liberal christian protestant.. not too surprising in my case, but it was an interesting quiz

[ryberg]

Well like Mercy in the original post of this thread, I am not being sarcastic or otherwise difficult or whatever with the following comment. And I confess that I offer it (in a rare situation, for me) without having read through the entire thread (in part because the thread was umpteen pages long before even 24 hours went by!).

But it seems to me that the original question of the thread is effectively starting with the assumption that God (however usually thought of) does in fact exist, and asking non-believers to sort of prove that God does not exist. Or something tantamount to that (even if the immediate question is more about what non-believers do in dire situations and so forth).

I'm not sure that is, in the end, the right or fair way to start off and base such a discussion, myself. Philosophy and religion have instead started off and based their discussions on God in the more intuitive way, by saying, let's see if we can prove that God does exist, since we don't have the normal type of evidence for such existence.

It does get back to those more immediate questions, too, as the implication is that people who are not religious are lacking something when in dire situations. People who are not religious, though, could simply point out that they are not lacking something because the comfort or beliefs of those who are religious are not somehow real or valid or are the opiate of the masses or whatever. In fact, people who are not religious might see themselves as in a better position to deal with such crises or whatever, as they are not in some kind of religion-induced fog about their lives and reality and the nature of the world and so forth. (You think that's an exaggeration? Just watch a non-religious person throw up their hands in frustration and disbelief when a religious person reaches the point with reference to a very negative situation of saying something like, oh, well, that's God's will, I guess!)

I'm not trying to take a side on this, I'm just saying that, even if it was unintentional, the original approach seems to be biased in such a way that Mercy and others won't get the kind of answer they may be interested in getting, because probably no satisfactory answer can be given, due to that bias inherent in the nature of the question.

That's my 0.02 USD worth, anyway.

Steve

[Tommygurl]

Originally Posted by pamplemoose77

apparently i'm 100% mainline liberal christian protestant.. not too surprising in my case, but it was an interesting quiz

This is me:
Your Results:


1. Unitarian Universalism (100%)
See selected books about Unitarian Universalism. Click here for info2. Secular Humanism (92%)
See selected books about Secular Humanism. Click here for info3. Neo-Pagan (86%)
See selected books about Neo-Pagan. Click here for info4. Theravada Buddhism (85%)
See selected books about Theravada Buddhism. Click here for info5. Liberal Quakers (81%)
See selected books about Liberal Quakers. Click here for info6. New Age (70%)
See selected books about New Age. Click here for info7. Mahayana Buddhism (66%)
See selected books about Mahayana Buddhism