Presidential Campaign: 2012

[roni]

Look at the survey data StephenB. There is not much support there for cutting entitlements.

[STOGEY]

Originally Posted by roni

The USA Federal govt.. Needs more revenues. Lots more.

Thinking it is solely or primarily a spending problem is incorrect.

That will be discussed during the primary and general election campaign, but there is little evidence anyone other the Koch's, Norquist and their minions, sycophants, and other followers think it is a spending problem primarily.

Yes it is a spending problem.

[STOGEY]

Originally Posted by roni

The USA Federal govt.. Needs more revenues. Lots more.

Thinking it is solely or primarily a spending problem is incorrect.

That will be discussed during the primary and general election campaign, but there is little evidence anyone other the Koch's, Norquist and their minions, sycophants, and other followers think it is a spending problem primarily.

Originally Posted by StewartG

Wow! Really? This DESPITE the fact that during 26 of those 35 years from 1960 to 1995 the top marginal tax bracket ranged between 50% and 91%? Seriously?

But wait... wait... Now I'm REALLY confused... You're saying that the pace of U.S. economic growth during the LAST 20 years, a time when our tax income tax rates are the LOWEST in history (thanks to your Republican supply-side brethren), is way slower than this period during which the top marginal tax rate was a downright sisyphean rate of at LEAST 50% in 26 of 35 of those years? stop yelling. Yo

During the last 20 years (during which you are asserting that U.S. economic growth was much slower than the 35 years from '60 - '95) haven't we been enjoying top marginal tax rates which are, quite literally, a FRACTION of that "go go growth" time you are referring to between 1960 and 1995?

I know I'm a bit slow on the uptake, but what I *THINK* you are saying is this: When top marginal rates were really, really high, the U.S. economy blossomed like a rose in spring, when top marginal rates were really, really low, the U.S. economy grew, barely, but at a laboriously slow pace?

I mean, I see your point... But I'm just surprised to see you advocating for such a marked increase in the top marginal tax rates!!!





Notwithstanding your ad hominem jab at President Obama, I think I would agree with YOUR approach to grow the economy, base
d on the argument and statistics you quote in your post - we need merely raise the top marginal income tax brackets to somewhere between 50% and 91% and the logarithmic curve of U.S. GDP growth should EXPLODE, right?

Stop yelling. Get control of yourself old boy.

[StewartG]

Originally Posted by STOGEY

Stop yelling. Get control of yourself old boy.

Sorry, I just got excited when I saw a staunch conservative like tmc advocate a higher marginal top income tax bracket!

[Mikey]

Originally Posted by StephenB

I think I just discovered I'm a minion...cause I think the USA has a serious spending problem...

August 2nd will be here before you know it. Sure hope they raise the national debt limit so we can continue to go further and further in debt. Makes perfect sense.

[roni]

Originally Posted by Mikey

August 2nd will be here before you know it. Sure hope they raise the national debt limit so we can continue to go further and further in debt. Makes perfect sense.

Your thinking always that simplistic?

I don't really think it is.

[D33RHUNT3R]

Originally Posted by StewartG

Well, if I may... Tax receipts from 1990 to 2008 may be up 140% (I trust you, I didn't check any resources), but U.S. GDP during the EXACT same period is up ALMOST THREEFOLD from 5.75 trillion to 14.36 trillion USD.

So, basically, what we see is that even in a period where federal revenue is up, the U.S. economy can still grow at a SIGNIFICANTLY faster pace?

And wait... If GDP is able to grow at this astonishingly high pace (a pace much faster than that of federal revenue during the same period) does that mean that American businesses can still prosper, grow, thrive and succeed all while... ...PAYING TAXES?


U.S. GDP growth chart below:

World Bank, World Development Indicators - Google public data

IMO Business don't really pay taxes they just pass that cost on to the consumer..its just a sales gimmick by the government that sells really well to liberals..

[D33RHUNT3R]

Originally Posted by roni

Your thinking always that simplistic?

I don't really think it is.

So Roni why is it called a debt ceiling ... if it really isn't the ceiling ?
Sound just like another government political gimmick to me ...

Do you think Government will cut enough to actually stop going deeper in debt if the limit is raise yet once again.. I don't the SPENDING will just continue IMO.

[tmc]

Originally Posted by StewartG

Wow! Really? This DESPITE the fact that during 26 of those 35 years from 1960 to 1995 the top marginal tax bracket ranged between 50% and 91%? Seriously?

But wait... wait... Now I'm REALLY confused... You're saying that the pace of U.S. economic growth during the LAST 20 years, a time when our tax income tax rates are the LOWEST in history (thanks to your Republican supply-side brethren), is way slower than this period during which the top marginal tax rate was a downright sisyphean rate of at LEAST 50% in 26 of 35 of those years?

During the last 20 years (during which you are asserting that U.S. economic growth was much slower than the 35 years from '60 - '95) haven't we been enjoying top marginal tax rates which are, quite literally, a FRACTION of that "go go growth" time you are referring to between 1960 and 1995?

I know I'm a bit slow on the uptake, but what I *THINK* you are saying is this: When top marginal rates were really, really high, the U.S. economy blossomed like a rose in spring, when top marginal rates were really, really low, the U.S. economy grew, barely, but at a laboriously slow pace?

I mean, I see your point... But I'm just surprised to see you advocating for such a marked increase in the top marginal tax rates!!!





Notwithstanding your ad hominem jab at President Obama, I think I would agree with YOUR approach to grow the economy, based on the argument and statistics you quote in your post - we need merely raise the top marginal income tax brackets to somewhere between 50% and 91% and the logarithmic curve of U.S. GDP growth should EXPLODE, right?

Well, all other things being equal, perhaps. Did you ever wonder why with top marginal rates as high as you described the total percentage of GDP represented by the tax bite has been remarkably constant over time? You do realize that very few taxpayers were subject to those rates, don't you? You also know that various other conditions extant then (value of deductions, income limits under which the rates were effective, etc.) meant that there was no bonanza for the federal treasury, anymore so than now? You do realize that those in the "rich" category back in 1960 paid a smaller percentage of the income taxes collected than they do now, and that lower income people paid much higher income taxes than they do now? You do know that federal spending as a percentage of GDP was much less throughout the 60's and 70's than it is now through the 10's? I'm not sure that the Democrats would be willing to return to such times, but it is worthy of discussion.

[Mr Cancun]

[IMG][/IMG]

[gingele]

Originally Posted by Mikey

August 2nd will be here before you know it. Sure hope they raise the national debt limit so we can continue to go further and further in debt. Makes perfect sense.

You do realize that the Republicans in Congress voted SEVEN different times to raise the debt ceiling under President Bush:



Source: http://crooksandliars.com/jon-perr/r...h-debt-ceiling

[D33RHUNT3R]

2.5 yrs later ...



If these are still the stories we read like this:
U.S. consumer confidence fell in June - Business - Stocks & economy - msnbc.com
in 1.5 more years or anything close to it .. Obama is 1 and done .. People do one thing vote their pocket books and if Obama still aint got it done ..He is done ..I don't care what sales pitch he use's..He will be Jimmy Carter II...
IMO you Liberals can kiss Obama's donkey goodbye..


"Americans still feel like they're in a recession," said C. Britt Beemer, chairman of America's Research Group. "They feel like they're driving in a car and getting hit by all sides."


[edit:] more good news from the home foreclosure front that democrats claimed wasn't a problem.. this should really help bolster Obama's case in 2012 .. more people tossed from their homes= more homes on the market depressing it even more...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43579924...n_the_economy/

[Babaloo]

Originally Posted by D33RHUNT3R

2.5 yrs later ...



If these are still the stories we read like this:
U.S. consumer confidence fell in June - Business - Stocks & economy - msnbc.com
in 1.5 more years or anything close to it .. Obama is 1 and done .. People do one thing vote their pocket books and if Obama still aint got it done ..He is done ..I don't care what sales pitch he use's..He will be Jimmy Carter II...
IMO you Liberals can kiss Obama's donkey goodbye..


"Americans still feel like they're in a recession," said C. Britt Beemer, chairman of America's Research Group. "They feel like they're driving in a car and getting hit by all sides."


[edit:] more good news from the home foreclosure frontthat democrats cliamed wasn't a problem.. this should really help bolster Obama's case in 2012 .. more people tossed from their homes...

Ok.
2012 Presidential election.
You think Obama sucks.
We get it.

So...whataya got?

[D33RHUNT3R]

Originally Posted by Babaloo

Ok.
2012 Presidential election.
You think Obama sucks.
We get it.

So...whataya got?

I'm thinking a MAJORITY is now thinking what I thought before He got elected.

1st- Senators generally dont make good presidents IMO from either party...They don't know how to run crap other than their mouth... typical politician..Plus people are now seeing him for the Socialist/Marxist He is ..

Governors and/or Businessman are much better choices IMO..

The bleeding heart shit don't pay the bills.. thats reality... see Greece...

[minnjim]

Crap. Typed a whole articles worth and didn't log in.

Basically, the federal government is offering mortgage rate reduction refinancing programs with "no closing costs" to the seller. The government is reimbursing the bank their closing costs.
Sounds great, right? Here's the catch. The two parties I have witnessed in the last two days that were offered this program have a ton of equity in their homes, are gainfully employed and have never missed a mortgage payment. One of the parties are millionaires. Thankfully, they turned it down.
And at some point during his reelection campaign, POTUS is going to tout how, 'we have reduced the mortgage rates of....blah, blah blah.'
What a total crock of shit.