Presidential Campaign: 2012

[james]

Originally Posted by Hellgrammite

Grow a garden? Trim and harvest? Be a parent? Maybe we all should get back to the simple pleasures.

But to imply that a US citizen has to have undocumented workers to help them get along is bad enough. Then to add "who's gonna?"... like this is a void that we somehow can't fill?!?! Rather insulting.

Originally Posted by D33RHUNT3R

I agree completely...

sand<=head

the reality is that without undocumented workers your fruit will rot on the tree.

[snappysammy]

Originally Posted by james

sand<=head

the reality is that without undocumented workers your fruit will rot on the tree.

few yrs ago i was in lake county, CA
millions of pounds of pears were laying on the ground rotting for lack of people to pick

think i am exaggerating: Rotting pear crop illustrates farmers' plight

[melliedee]

Interesting...

The most immediate practical impediment to independent and third-party bids has always been the difficulty of getting on the ballot in all 50 states, a complex process that requires substantial time, money and organization. Ross Perot managed it in 1992 and got almost 19 percent of the popular vote despite dropping out at one point; Ralph Nader was on 44 state ballots in 2000, including, fatefully, Florida, where the election was decided in George W. Bush’s favor by 537 votes.

In 2012, courtesy of a group called Americans Elect, some lucky independent candidate will have the chance to enter the race all but guaranteed nationwide ballot access. And as that fact — or threat — has begun to dawn on the Democratic and Republican establishments, it is setting off new chatter about the prospect for a high-profile unity ticket, or at least about someone emerging to play the role of national gadfly and potential spoiler for one party or the other.

Of course, Americans Elect could be wholly successful in creating the opportunity for a new, centrist ticket to emerge but still run into the difficult reality of convincing candidates of real stature and appeal to step forward and run against an incumbent Democratic president and the full force of a highly motivated Republican Party.

Officials of the group say quiet outreach has begun to some potential candidates, and the names of some usual suspects are popping up. They start with Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg of New York, and Jon M. Huntsman Jr., the Utah Republican, should his bid for his party’s nomination fail

Group Clears Path for a Third-Party Ticket - NYTimes.com

[roni]

Haley's endorsement in SC may not help Romney all that much

But the people in that base who propelled Haley to the governor’s mansion last year see the endorsement of the more moderate Romney as abandoning them — and giving them another reason to turn away from a governor whose approval rating has dropped to 34.6 percent.

Read more: Nikki Haley's Mitt Romney endorsement catches flak - Reid J. Epstein - POLITICO.com

[D33RHUNT3R]

Originally Posted by james

sand<=head

the reality is that without undocumented workers your fruit will rot on the tree.

With unemployment as high as it is .. just offer these jobs to the unemployed in those areas, if they refuse the work cut off their unemployment checks..

and farmers are going to simply have to either plant less or pay more.. or go out of business..
But the answer imo is not to turn our back on the slave labor market that keeps pay supressed across the country..from factory work to construction to lawn services..

and the undocumented workers are doing A LOT of jobs many Americans would do... I don't know how people can talk about people making a living wage and then in the next breath support illegal slave labor.. you can't have both... just doesn't make sense to me ..

[melliedee]

Originally Posted by D33RHUNT3R

With unemployment as high as it is .. just offer these jobs to the unemployed in those areas, if they refuse the work cut off their unemployment checks..

and farmers are going to simply have to either plant less or pay more.. or go out of business..
But the answer imo is not to turn our back on the slave labor market that keeps pay supressed across the country..from factory work to construction to lawn services..

and the undocumented workers are doing A LOT of jobs many Americans would do... I don't know how people can talk about people making a living wage and then in the next breath support illegal slave labor.. you can't have both... just doesn't make sense to me ..

I actually agree with your bolded statement there, but this is not just an issue of wages. The consumer is culpable in this debate, too. If produce prices reflected the actual cost of production, farmers wouldn't need such cheap labor just to stay afloat.

[roni]

Originally Posted by D33RHUNT3R

With unemployment as high as it is .. just offer these jobs to the unemployed in those areas, if they refuse the work cut off their unemployment checks..

The system of unemployment compensation has in place regulations governing the receipt of compensation. It would be a serious mistake to replace theirs with yours.

Originally Posted by D33RHUNT3R

and farmers are going to simply have to either plant less or pay more.. or go out of business..
But the answer imo is not to turn our back on the slave labor market that keeps pay supressed across the country..from factory work to construction to lawn services..


and the undocumented workers are doing A LOT of jobs many Americans would do... I don't know how people can talk about people making a living wage and then in the next breath support illegal slave labor.. you can't have both... just doesn't make sense to me ..

You are so full of feces.

I have actually worked with migrant workers at a multi-hundred acre apple orchard before. One family I worked with had a father, an adult son and a teen-age daughter who picked apples. They go $10 for each filled crate. The crates were about 5 foot square and somewhere between 3 and 4 foot high (my estimates. They filled between 30 and 40 of the crates most days. I would give them a ticket for each crate they filled, and they would get paid each day.

I do not know of anyone who would claim that $300-400 a day constituted slave labor for this family. They were supporting themselves and not collecting an earned income tax credit check each year. I also know that the orchard owner gave jobs to American kids and adults, who generally did not last more than a week. It was hard work.

That was in the mid 1980's when I was working on a master's degree and helping to support my family by doing agricultural work. As you know, $400 then was worth more than it is today.

Maybe that was the exception rather than the rule, though. Maybe the rest of the country kept their migrant workers in chains, kept them imprisoned and didn't pay them anything.

[Mikey]

Originally Posted by roni

The system of unemployment compensation has in place regulations governing the receipt of compensation. It would be a serious mistake to replace theirs with yours.



You are so full of feces.

I have actually worked with migrant workers at a multi-hundred acre apple orchard before. One family I worked with had a father, an adult son and a teen-age daughter who picked apples. They go $10 for each filled crate. The crates were about 5 foot square and somewhere between 3 and 4 foot high (my estimates. They filled between 30 and 40 of the crates most days. I would give them a ticket for each crate they filled, and they would get paid each day.

I do not know of anyone who would claim that $300-400 a day constituted slave labor for this family. They were supporting themselves and not collecting an earned income tax credit check each year. I also know that the orchard owner gave jobs to American kids and adults, who generally did not last more than a week. It was hard work.

That was in the mid 1980's when I was working on a master's degree and helping to support my family by doing agricultural work. As you know, $400 then was worth more than it is today.

Maybe that was the exception rather than the rule, though. Maybe the rest of the country kept their migrant workers in chains, kept them imprisoned and didn't pay them anything.

Damn $400 a day is a lot of coin back then or now.

[roni]

Originally Posted by Mikey

Damn $400 a day is a lot of coin back then or now.

They did well. The son was a champion apple picker and accounted for probably 15 crates a day. He could flat work. Most folks would do 7-8 a day.

I do agree that cheap labor keeps wages down, but it is ridiculous and over the top to call it slave labor. It is also not all undocumented immigrants willing to work cheap. My younger brother is a chef and according to him a lot of legal Latino immigrants work for not a lot of money. He is 53 and transitioning away from the food industry, but we talked about it in October when I saw him. I also remember seeing Tony Bourdain talking about fine dining restaurants in New York City the other day. He claimed that most of the chefs and cooks there were Latinos.

We're not talking about unskilled labor at that level.

[roni]

Republicans are increasingly worried that their party’s efforts to win a competitive slice of the fast-growing Hispanic vote in important presidential battleground states are being undermined by Mitt Romney’s heated rhetoric on illegal immigration.

Several leading GOP strategists say Romney’s sharp-tongued attacks have gained wide attention in Hispanic media and are eroding the party’s already fragile standing in that community.

The leaders of one Republican-leaning group, the Hispanic Leadership Fund, are so upset with Romney that if he wins the nomination, they might withhold an endorsement and curtail plans for an extensive voter-contact campaign in Colorado, Nevada, New Mexico and Florida to bolster the GOP presidential ticket.

and

“Romney’s tin ear on this topic, on immigration, will hurt him should he be the nominee, is hurting the Republican Party and is hurting every conservative who cares about passing conservative legislation in the future,” said Mario H. Lopez, president of the Hispanic Leadership Fund.

Another Hispanic strategist on the right, Alfonso Aguilar, executive director of the Latino Partnership for Conservative Principles, added: “It pains me to say this, but if we have a negative narrative on immigration, it’s because of Mitt Romney.”

GOP wary of Romney’s rhetoric on immigrants

[Mikey]

Originally Posted by roni

They did well. The son was a champion apple picker and accounted for probably 15 crates a day. He could flat work. Most folks would do 7-8 a day.

I do agree that cheap labor keeps wages down, but it is ridiculous and over the top to call it slave labor. It is also not all undocumented immigrants willing to work cheap. My younger brother is a chef and according to him a lot of legal Latino immigrants work for not a lot of money. He is 53 and transitioning away from the food industry, but we talked about it in October when I saw him. I also remember seeing Tony Bourdain talking about fine dining restaurants in New York City the other day. He claimed that most of the chefs and cooks there were Latinos.

We're not talking about unskilled labor at that level.

Do you think that if you were to offer those types of jobs to the Ows'ers they would take them? And more specifically say the young adults? Has the work ethic changed for Americans in the last 20-30 years? I know that jobs are hard to find in many areas in America but there are jobs out there. But maybe not in areas where people live. Should they be open to relocating to where the jobs are? I know we have had a lot of people move to Texas because we have had more jobs available.

[Luv2Dance]

I've done a bit of this................




and a bit of this............




and a bit of this............

[james]

Originally Posted by D33RHUNT3R

With unemployment as high as it is .. just offer these jobs to the unemployed in those areas, if they refuse the work cut off their unemployment checks..

I think it's a good idea for the able-bodied, but good luck getting it passed.

Originally Posted by D33RHUNT3R

But the answer imo is not to turn our back on the slave labor market

no, it needs a realistic solution

the undocumented come to earn more than they do at home, so I'm not sure how that's slave labor.

[Robinhood]

Hey roni sorry had to cut it short last night ,but i have a nice gift for you grab a nice cup of java and enjoy the show. By the way the quack predicted the economic collapse of 08 20 years ago and just one more thing...who was Krugmans former boss? Why none other than Ben Bernanke He runs the fed the same Fed that RP saiz is unconstitutional hmmm
Enjoy the show

Keynesian Economics vs. Austrian Economics - YouTube


Ps. a Roni quote" Ron Paul has some economic cranks on his side."

[roni]

Originally Posted by Robinhood

Hey roni sorry had to cut it short last night ,but i have a nice gift for you grab a nice cup of java and enjoy the show. By the way the quack predicted the economic collapse of 08 20 years ago and just one more thing...who was Krugmans former boss? Why none other than Ben Bernanke He runs the fed the same Fed that RP saiz is unconstitutional hmmm
Enjoy the show



Ps. a Roni quote" Ron Paul has some economic cranks on his side."

Don't be too disappointed if I do not watch the youtuber. I watch very little video on the web, but I do ask my office mate about this stuff. He tries to be fair, and his Ph.D. from UC Berkeley is in Economics, but he is a labor economist.

Your assertion I bolded above is incorrect

Bernanke was the Chair of the Economics department at Princeton.

Krugman is a Professor of Economics and International Relations at the Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs at Princeton.

No reporting relationship between Bernanke and Krugman at Princeton, but they were colleagues at the same university for two years before Bernanke left on a public service leave to join the Federal Reserve. He subsequently resigned from his position at Princeton

Here is some background on Krugman

Krugman earned his B.A. in economics from Yale University summa cum laude in 1974 and his PhD from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) in 1977. While at MIT he was part of a small group of MIT students sent to work for the Central Bank of Portugal for three months in summer 1976, in the chaotic aftermath of the Carnation Revolution.[39]

From 1982 to 1983, he spent a year working at the Reagan White House as a staff member of the Council of Economic Advisers. He taught at Yale University, MIT, UC Berkeley, the London School of Economics, and Stanford University before joining Princeton University in 2000 as professor of economics and international affairs.

He is also currently a centenary professor at the London School of Economics, and a member of the Group of Thirty international economic body. He has been a research associate at the National Bureau of Economic Research since 1979.[40] Most recently, Krugman was President of the Eastern Economic Association.

Krugman is known in academia for his work on international economics (including trade theory, economic geography, and international finance),[10][19] liquidity traps and currency crises. According to the IDEAS/RePEc rankings, he is the 14th most widely cited economist in the world today.[20] In a 2011 survey, US economics professors ranked Krugman as their favorite living economic thinker under the age of 60.[21]

As of 2008[update], Krugman has written 20 books and has published over 200 scholarly articles in professional journals and edited volumes.

In 2008, Krugman won the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences for his contributions to New Trade Theory and New Economic Geography. According to the Nobel Prize Committee, the prize was given for Krugman's work explaining the patterns of international trade and the geographic concentration of wealth, by examining the impact of economies of scale and of consumer preferences for diverse goods and services.[18]

wikipedia