Big Three Bailout

[Just Lucky]

Originally Posted by sctx

you actually think some yankee is gonna get out of his car in that neighborhood???..... that's one of the areas where I actually exceed the speed limit

Speed limit? I was unaware the police visited the area. I used to eat at Sam's BBQ at 3:00 AM. Quien es mas macho?

The jalapeno sausage ROCKS!

[sctx]

Originally Posted by Just Lucky

I used to eat at Sam's BBQ at 3:00 AM. Quien es mas macho?

damn.... you went there armed with a .45 I assume

[Just Lucky]

Originally Posted by sctx

damn.... you went there armed with a .45 I assume

Who needs a gun?

I had my pointy toe boots on with the razor sharp silver tips.

Few people are looking for a hassle anywhere.

If yer lookin' fer one you'll probably find it.

Remember grasshopper.

[tmc]

Originally Posted by Just Lucky

Gollleee! I never thought I'd see it! You apparently had reservations about Bush's imperial Presidency and that lack of critical reporting on such by the press?

Yes to the former, but not really to the latter as I did see quite a bit in the press, and elsewhere, about Mr. Bush; I've not seen much about Mr. Obama's misuse of the office however, and nary a comment about it from you.

Next thing I suggest is for you to come out for the Constitution of the United States and living up to our international treaty obligations. Amazing, simply amazing!

Are you referring to something specific here? I figured you to be more concerned about civil liberties and the ninth and tenth amendments, for example.

[CalifGuy]

Originally Posted by melliedee

Did Obama strong arm credit holders in the Chysler negotiations?



White House Accused Of Chrysler Threats

I guess we should feel bad for the hedge funds that lost out on their Chrysler holdings. NOT They could have sold out earlier. Did anyone hear these hedge fund managers crying when the Gov't bailed out AIG, citicorp, etc.

[melliedee]

Originally Posted by CalifGuy

I guess we should feel bad for the hedge funds that lost out on their Chrysler holdings. NOT They could have sold out earlier. Did anyone hear these hedge fund managers crying when the Gov't bailed out AIG, citicorp, etc.

I posted a follow up article that says just that.

I dunno. I understand the debt holders wanting to get paid, but they bought a lot on the cheap and I am assuming knew the risk. If bankruptcy gave them a better deal, it may have actually been the thing to make Fiat bite. I was against it at first, but now it's looking like they may reorganize even stronger.

As long as they don't shut down the T-town plant!

[tmc]

Originally Posted by melliedee

Another side to this:

First, the bank lenders always could have opted out. Chrysler employees couldn't. Over several decades, Chrysler's employees lent a big chunk of their labor in exchange for contracted health care benefits and payments. But there's no secondary market for these types of claims on a company's assets. The employees couldn't cut their losses and sell their pension rights to a third party. Nor could they hedge by trading options or buying credit default swaps. By contrast, holders of bank debt and bonds weren't long-term lenders. They may have jumped in last year, or last month, looking for a quick trade. And when it didn't work out, they had an easy out: sell the debt to another investor.

Detroit: Will Obama's Chrysler Plan Work? | Newsweek Voices - Daniel Gross | Newsweek.com

Well, the Chrysler employees could have left at any time and taken a better job if they thought they were getting a raw deal. They would have found that their deal with Chrysler, warts and all, was much better than most other people had, and they don't get chunks of the company out of proportion to their investment. The union fared much better than did the bondholders; if the offer to the bondholders was more in line with the return provided the unions, there would probably have been no issue. It was only when Obama promised the union a much better ROI than he did the bondholders that all hell broke loose. What do you think GM bondholders are thinking now; how is GM going to stave off bankruptcy with this fiasco playing out as it is?

There also is a matter of law, the law mandates that secured creditors get compensated accordingly. Should we ignore the law because the bondholders are thought to be greedy? By that reckoning, perhaps child molestors should not be entitled to lawyers?

[CalifGuy]

Originally Posted by melliedee

I posted a follow up article that says just that.

I dunno. I understand the debt holders wanting to get paid, but they bought a lot on the cheap and I am assuming knew the risk. If bankruptcy gave them a better deal, it may have actually been the thing to make Fiat bite. I was against it at first, but now it's looking like they may reorganize even stronger.

As long as they don't shut down the T-town plant!

OK, I see your follow up now and I think everyone since Lee Ioccoa knew the risks with Chrysler. I guess a few Hedge fund managers will not get their multi-million dollar paychecks this year.

But I do hope for everyone in Toledo that they can keep that plant running.

[melliedee]

Originally Posted by CalifGuy

OK, I see your follow up now and I think everyone since Lee Ioccoa knew the risks with Chrysler. I guess a few Hedge fund managers will not get their multi-million dollar paychecks this year.

But I do hope for everyone in Toledo that they can keep that plant running.

It's looking good. The Italians have been to visit, and they like the versatility of the plant. We already made Forbes list of worst city for employment, followed by a big old number 1 in Dee-troit for most "miserable" city, our close rustbelt neighbors to the north. The midwest cannot survive without a strong manufacturing industry. Yes, they need to retool and make better cars, but I have faith.

[melliedee]

Originally Posted by tmc

Well, the Chrysler employees could have left at any time and taken a better job if they thought they were getting a raw deal. They would have found that their deal with Chrysler, warts and all, was much better than most other people had, and they don't get chunks of the company out of proportion to their investment. The union fared much better than did the bondholders; if the offer to the bondholders was more in line with the return provided the unions, there would probably have been no issue. It was only when Obama promised the union a much better ROI than he did the bondholders that all hell broke loose. What do you think GM bondholders are thinking now; how is GM going to stave off bankruptcy with this fiasco playing out as it is?

There also is a matter of law, the law mandates that secured creditors get compensated accordingly. Should we ignore the law because the bondholders are thought to be greedy? By that reckoning, perhaps child molestors should not be entitled to lawyers?

The law was not ignored. No doubt there may have been "strong arm" pressure, but the bond holders didn't fold, did they? I don't like mafioso tactics via my government either.

You may think the UAW got a sweet heart deal, but they've been giving strong concessions for the past two years.

[sctx]

technically, Chrysler owes me about $28..... does that mean I may get $9 after bankruptcy???

[melliedee]

Originally Posted by sctx

technically, Chrysler owes me about $28..... does that mean I may get $9 after bankruptcy???

Keep being mouthy about it, and someone will come break your legs.

[Rissask]

Originally Posted by melliedee

Keep being mouthy about it, and someone will come break your legs.

or put a horse's head in his bed.

Originally Posted by melliedee

It's looking good. The Italians have been to visit, and they like the versatility of the plant. We already made Forbes list of worst city for employment, followed by a big old number 1 in Dee-troit for most "miserable" city, our close rustbelt neighbors to the north. The midwest cannot survive without a strong manufacturing industry. Yes, they need to retool and make better cars, but I have faith.

Faith is good. Sometimes.
I hope they keep the plant open. Jobs are good.

[tmc]

Originally Posted by melliedee

The law was not ignored. No doubt there may have been "strong arm" pressure, but the bond holders didn't fold, did they? I don't like mafioso tactics via my government either.

It (the law) most certainly was ignored, by Obama; we now have to trust that a judge does the right thing. I guess Obama spent too much time cogitating on the Constitution, witness his voluminous writings on all the critical constitutional issues of the day, to worry about such trifles as contract law.

You may think the UAW got a sweet heart deal, but they've been giving strong concessions for the past two years.

They may have made concessions, but that was part of a negotiating effort in the past. Once those negotiations were closed, they were entitled to a certain amount of Chrysler under the law, according to a well-established, legally sanctioned pecking-order; Obama abrogated that arrangement, let's hope the judge follows the law.

[melliedee]

Originally Posted by tmc

It (the law) most certainly was ignored, by Obama; we now have to trust that a judge does the right thing. I guess Obama spent too much time cogitating on the Constitution, witness his voluminous writings on all the critical constitutional issues of the day, to worry about such trifles as contract law.

They may have made concessions, but that was part of a negotiating effort in the past. Once those negotiations were closed, they were entitled to a certain amount of Chrysler under the law, according to a well-established, legally sanctioned pecking-order; Obama abrogated that arrangement, let's hope the judge follows the law.

I don't see what laws have been broken if the bankruptcy judges will decide everything.